Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[Dúnedain]

Here is the leader of the opposition party (Iraqi National Congress, those Iraqi exiles who will be reforming the new Iraq) and his thoughts on the UN:

http://www.inc.org.uk/p_en/news/archives/00001311.htm

03/27/2003 : "UN too weak for major post-war role in Iraq: opposition leader"

LONDON (AFP) - Iraqi opposition leader Ahmad Chalabi spoke out against a major role for the United Nations in a post-war Iraq.

Chalabi, who heads the London-based Iraqi National Congress (INC) umbrella opposition group, said in an interview in the Daily Telegraph newspaper: "The UN is too weak to deal with de-Baathification (getting rid of the ruling Baath party), the destruction of weapons of mass destruction" and the dismantling of Saddam Hussein's security services.

"The UN would be hamstrung. Iraq is far too big and important," Chalabi said.

"The UN's record on Iraq has been abysmal and the Iraqi people have little confidence in the UN," he added.

Chalabi said he wanted allied troops to remain after the war until a referendum and then elections were held to establish democracy and independence.

Speaking from Dokan, northern Iraq, Chalabi hailed the US and British advance into Iraq, even if he said that "the coalition has not been able to win the confidence of the Iraqi people, who feel completely disempowered.

"The only ones who can mobilise the Iraqi people are the opposition, and so far there is little role for us in this war," Chalabi said.

He said the opposition could provide vital intelligence for the allied forces, based on "frequent and detailed contacts" with networks of sources inside all the areas under Saddam's control.

Claiming that his organisation had "tens of thousands of fighters throughout the country", Chalabi said the opposition was now unified and ready to take part in a war of liberation.

"We can start a second front in northern Iraq very quickly, provided that the coalition takes practical steps towards military coordination. It is long overdue.

"The leadership of the opposition are in a position to declare a provisional government, which could play a very important role in dealing with the security situation," Chalabi said.

Funny, even the Iraqis who will be forming the new Iraq don't want the UN...

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Funny, even the Iraqis who will be forming the new Iraq don't want the UN...

How... convenient.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
How... convenient.

Yes it is. It must be a conspiracy.

The oppoisition group is with our troops though providing various support functions - including translation.

[Tanoliel]

So is the UN just fading out of the picture, then? Is our New World Order going to be a bunch of superpowers squabbling? (People compare some others to "kids on a schoolyard" but many kids I know tend to work it out...these people are acting like ADULTS! Oh, dear.)
Hmm. And lines on the radio speaking about anti-war protestors..."that's socialist, if not communist, propogana!" Oh, heaven save me from the communists. If another McCarthy pops up....
Whatever happened to the enlightened 21st century?

Tano

p.s. Elf Girl, on which page is that post you referred to? The one with your...hometown...on it?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Tanoliel
So is the UN just fading out of the picture, then?

When have they been in the picture? I think they lost most Americans support when they named Iraq to chair the Disarmament committee and to Libya to chair the Human Rights committee.

Is our New World Order going to be a bunch of superpowers squabbling?

And the other super powers would be???

Whatever happened to the enlightened 21st century?

One side can't practice enlightenment when an enemy is practically living in the stone ages. The world is only as enlightened as it's weakest link. And these regimes are the weakest link as long as they go on to continue to torture and barbarically execute their own citizens.

[Dúnedain]

Here is an interesting sound clip of a Radio show. It has an Iraqi exile trying to debate with a peace protestor.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.p...-war-convo.mp3

[Dúnedain]

Here is the first of many big finds in Iraq:

Raid Finds al-Qaida Tie to Iraq Militants

BIYARE, Iraq - A U.S.-led assault on a compound controlled by an extremist Islamic group turned up a list of names of suspected militants living in the United States and what may be the strongest evidence yet linking the group to al-Qaida, coalition commanders said Monday.

........

Among a trove of evidence found inside Ansar compounds were passports and identity papers of Ansar activists indicating that up to 150 of them were foreigners, including Yemenis, Turks, Palestinians, Pakistanis, Algerians and Iranians.


Coalition forces also found a phone book containing numbers of alleged Islamic activists based in the United States and Europe as well as the number of a Kuwaiti cleric and a letter from Yemen's minister of religion. The names and numbers were not released.


"What we've discovered in Biyare is a very sophisticated operation," said Barham Salih, prime minister of the Kurdish regional government.


Seized computer disks contained evidence showing meetings between Ansar and al-Qaida activists, according to Mahdi Saeed Ali, a military commander.

It was unclear how strong Ansar remains.


Officials from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, one of two parties that share control of an autonomous Kurdish enclave in northern Iraq, say they killed 250 Ansar members during two days of intense fighting and aerial bombardments.

.........

Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Sunday the Sargat compound was probably the site where militants made a biological toxin, traces of which were later found by police in London.

"We think that's probably where the ricin that was found in London came (from)" he told CNN's "Late Edition." "At least the operatives and maybe some of the formulas came from this site."

British police raided a London apartment in January and found traces of ricin, a powerful poison made from castor plant beans. U.S. officials believe the poison and those arrested were linked to Ansar.

You can find the whole article here:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...raqi_militants

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Here is an interesting sound clip of a Radio show. It has an Iraqi exile trying to debate with a peace protestor.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.p...-war-convo.mp3

That's the problem with peace protestors - they think the "simple" solutions will always work.

What I found strange is how she felt that the Israeli and Palestinian situation or North Korea was a success story.

[Tanoliel]

Yeah, okay...I was being cynical and all. I just hate all this pain....

[Lizra]

I'm with you there Tano, It's hard to function when there is so much pain. I struggle.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Yes it is. It must be a conspiracy.

The oppoisition group is with our troops though providing various support functions - including translation.

Well, Chalabi (who has not lived in Iraq since 1956 and has been convicted on bank fraud charges in Jordan ) is spending most of his time bitching that the Americans are not making use of the opposition- and they might indeed be somewhat wary of the exiles, since they were the ones proclaiming how the whole Iraqi people would rise up to overthrow Saddam as soon as the war started.

It was their advice that led Perle to proclaim that the "main role of the [Coalition] ground forces will be taking down name, rank and serial number" and that the Saddam regime would dissolve "at the first whiff of gunpowder".

These guys are basically hoping to be installed as the new government by the Americans, without getting into any of the fighting.

Incidentally, there are Iraqi exiles going back to fight- unfortunately, they're on the wrong

side.http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/W...o_Baghdad.html

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Incidentally, there are Iraqi exiles going back to fight- unfortunately, they're on the wrong

side.http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/W...o_Baghdad.html

I am aware that there are some Iraqi exiles going back to fight. You notice how those exiles were livin gthe Middle East where they're only getting one view of the war - "America is evil"

But also - American reporters did interview a lot of those exiles getting on the buses - some said they weren't going back to fight - they were going back to be with their families. Which - being with your families - I think most people can understand - but the Middle East would rather everyone think they're all picking up guns against the "invaders". Remember - the same thing was said about people going over to Afganistan to fight against us.

[Dúnedain]

Back to the Al Jazeera thing for a minute

Here is an example of "how newsworthy" they are. On 3/23, just about a week ago, there was a report run on the station that stated Israel conspired and were the organizers of 9/11.

I mean come on, this is almost 2 years after the fact and we know for a fact WHO did it, but i guess somehow Israel brainwashed those Arab militant fundamentalists, oh and that bin Laden guy too

[Dúnedain]

Here is an example of the top of monsters we are fighting, this pisses me off like no other!

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...E25778,00.html

Marines search for fallen comrade
From correspondents in southern Iraq
April 01, 2003

US Marines moved into the southern Iraqi town of Shatrah today to recover the body of a dead comrade which had been hanged in the town square, officers said.

Hundreds of troops were dispatched on the operation after intelligence reports indicated the body of a dead American, who was killed in a firefight last week, had been paraded through the streets and hanged in public.

"We would like to retrieve the body of the marine but it is not our sole purpose," said Lieutenant-Colonel Pete Owen, of the First Marine Expeditionary Force.

Military sources said another part of the operation was to arm local militias to fight against members of the ruling Baath party loyal to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Shatrah is some 40km north of Nasiriyah, where Iraqi forces have been harassing US supply lines and putting up tough resistance for more than a week.

The Associated Press

[jerseydevil]

I didn't hear about that. But I did hear about the 9 year old boy who was killed in front of his family because they refused to cooperate with Hussein's troops.

That amazingly doesn't get on Al Jazeera.

[crickhollow]

speaking of Al Jazeera, they still don't have the english site up and running--I suppose they'll just leave the link open to the arabic site, and not bother with the english version.

Stupid hackers.

[Tanoliel]

Just finished watching horrifying film on Vietnam.

"The Orientals (ie Vietnamese) don't put such a high price on life as Westerners do...life is not important, life is cheap in the Orient."
--William Westmoreland

I find this frightening--the man who said this was the Commander of the American Army in Vietnam: the most powerful army in the world.

I can only hope, fervently, desparately, that this does not turn into another Vietnam. That it is over quickly, that soldiers do not give in to wartime prejudice, that compassion eventually reigns.

I also find it frightening that there is a new theory floating around for the last ten years: that theory being that we didn't lose in Vietnam because we were wrong, or because "the enemy" was better than us: we lost because the American public lost courage (read: protested), and we didn't do enough. We bombed hundreds of thousands of villages, napalmed children....and we didn't do enough?
The scariest thing is that some of these theorists are now in the Pentagon...and high ranking.

Somebody save us. Seriously.

tano

(well, there was my little rant for the day... But I am serious....)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Tanoliel
Just finished watching horrifying film on Vietnam.

"The Orientals (ie Vietnamese) don't put such a high price on life as Westerners do...life is not important, life is cheap in the Orient."
--William Westmoreland

I find this frightening--the man who said this was the Commander of the American Army in Vietnam: the most powerful army in the world.

Well did you know that the vietcong were STRAPPING radio controlled bombs to children and having them come up to American soldiers? That type of behavior was what the commander was referring to. I suggest you be outraged by that - before passing such easy judgement on our troops.

By the way - was that a hollywood film or a documentary?

I can only hope, fervently, desparately, that this does not turn into another Vietnam. That it is over quickly, that soldiers do not give in to wartime prejudice, that compassion eventually reigns.

See above as to why it was not prejudice which warranted that statement.

I also find it frightening that there is a new theory floating around for the last ten years: that theory being that we didn't lose in Vietnam because we were wrong, or because "the enemy" was better than us: we lost because the American public lost courage (read: protested), and we didn't do enough. We bombed hundreds of thousands of villages, napalmed children....and we didn't do enough?
The scariest thing is that some of these theorists are now in the Pentagon...and high ranking.

I think you should study it a little bit more before making judgements. The thing that caused the outraged was because Nixon said he was going to get us out of Vietnam - but then the North Vietnamese were hiding out in Cambodia and we attacked them there. People were outraged - but didn't have the facts as to why we attacked into Cambodia.


We just rescued one of our POWs. Supposedly it is a woman - so it must be the chef. I think her last name is Johnson. But it was just announced and they don't have much info on it yet.

They just announced it was 19 year old Jessica Lynch from Virginia. She was actually listed as a MIA, Iraq never stated that they had her in capitivity.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Tanoliel
p.s. Elf Girl, on which page is that post you referred to? The one with your...hometown...on it?

Yes.

[Tanoliel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well did you know that the vietcong were STRAPPING radio controlled bombs to children and having them come up to American soldiers? That type of behavior was what the commander was referring to. I suggest you be outraged by that - before passing such easy judgement on our troops.

By the way - was that a hollywood film or a documentary?

See above as to why it was not prejudice which warranted that statement.

Yes. I know. And that also makes me very mad, and very very sad. But how do you know that was what the Commander was referring to? It was in fact a documentary, and this was in fact Westmoreland himself that was talking...and this was not the only statement he made that was...well...that made me mad.

Okay, okay. Not "prejudice," but still.

I'm just saying I want this to be over quickly with minimum casualties on every side.

And would someone mind telling me why troops opened fire on a minivan full of civilian women and children and killed seven of them?
tano