10-06-2005, 12:18 PM | #541 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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you said that "you resent the implication that they are not equal"... when, in fact, they are not equal
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10-06-2005, 12:18 PM | #542 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
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The two groups are allowed equal treatment under the law. Corporate America and Fed. entitlements can be changed to recognize Civil Unions for benefits and for estate planning. No need to blur the lines nor ignore the sanctity (sp?) of heteros marriage.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 10-06-2005 at 12:20 PM. |
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10-06-2005, 12:25 PM | #543 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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marriage and civil union are exactly the same thing in the eyes of the law... and in fact, a purely religious marriage without the corresponding legal marriage is not even recognized as valid there is no line to blur... but you suggestion is creating a line where there need not be one... and whether intended or not, it says "these people are not equal, so must be categorized differently" even if they share the exact same rights and principles
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-06-2005, 12:26 PM | #544 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-06-2005, 12:28 PM | #545 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-06-2005, 12:28 PM | #546 | |
Elf Lord
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The issue is, as you say, where we draw the line. But the argument of "well, we all draw a line somewhere, so we're all the same and each view is equally valid" is specious. Also, I suspect that ultra-relativism is not a worldview you genuinely subscribe to. And it is like racial discrimination, in that gay people have no choice. Why the umbrage? |
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10-06-2005, 12:33 PM | #547 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
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M&CU aren't exactly the same because benefits are involved and by contractual definition with corp. America CU suffer this problem.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-06-2005, 12:57 PM | #548 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-06-2005, 01:07 PM | #549 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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10-06-2005, 03:23 PM | #550 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 03:25 PM | #551 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 03:37 PM | #552 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And from your post where you said, "I would also agree that incest should not be legal, and I would accept that this means I am not granting such people equality with others", it looks like you are also choosing to treat certain groups unequally, and that's OK with you. If so, then apparently you don't have a problem with treating certain groups unequally! Is that right? If that's your definition, too, then yes, I'm treating homosexuals unequally, but you're treating certain groups unequally, too, so what's the big deal? The reason why I objected so strongly is that I thought you guys were saying I was doing something that you WEREN'T doing yourselves. But that's not the case, as I can see from your answers. (unless I'm misunderstanding you - am I?) Quote:
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(and by umbrage, do you mean I'm angry at homosexuals, or have been angry at people that want to change marriage laws and let them marry but not other groups like incestuous people?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-06-2005 at 03:38 PM. |
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10-06-2005, 03:37 PM | #553 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-06-2005, 03:42 PM | #554 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-06-2005, 03:49 PM | #555 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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but when i see people claim that "i do treat them equally" and then "but marriage is different", i point out the hypocrisy if you are against gay marriage, then you do not believe gays are entitled to the same things in our society that heterosexuals are... you believe they are not equal it's not that complicated
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-06-2005, 03:52 PM | #556 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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religion and legal marriage are completely independent in the US
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-06-2005, 03:57 PM | #557 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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It is the word, the definition; marriage is between Robert and Susan not Stuart and Stanley IT'S not that difficult.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-06-2005, 04:02 PM | #558 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-06-2005, 04:05 PM | #559 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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..come on you just gotta bait and argue.....of course definitions change (but this one hasn't) if you ask for a "fag" in the US you'll get looks, but in the UK you won't. What can is different from what "is"......you remember the definition of what is is don't you.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 10-06-2005 at 04:07 PM. |
10-06-2005, 04:06 PM | #560 |
Elf Lord
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Hey, just ignore my TIME post, will ya! The silence (except for Nurv) is deafening!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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