04-25-2006, 11:57 AM | #501 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
|
Quote:
Last edited by GreyMouser : 04-25-2006 at 12:11 PM. |
|
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM | #502 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
|
Found this:
Quote:
http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume3/spirit.htm |
|
04-25-2006, 02:08 PM | #503 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
In Modern Hebrew at least the word 'spirit', 'ruwach', is used much more often in feminine than masculine; I never refer to wind as a masculine noun, only as feminine. So I don't see this like proof, or even evidence... it's simply the natural way of saying it.
|
04-25-2006, 02:11 PM | #504 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Indeed!
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-25-2006, 03:42 PM | #505 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
And I know that in Spanish, at least, there are some words whose gender doesn't seem to match the word, so using a word like "Spirit" that is a feminine noun doesn't necessarily mean that the Holy Spirit is feminine. But it's interesting to think about!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
04-26-2006, 12:42 AM | #506 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
On a related and humourous note, the Latin noun virtus, meaning among other things 'manliness', is a feminine noun.
Virtus feminea est. But anyway, to contribute to the discussion, there are words in Latin (I assume the same is true of Spanish), such as poeta, agricola, nauta, etc., which look feminine, but are in fact masculine (i.e. you use masculine adjective and pronouns with them). Is it possible that you're thinking of something like this?
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
05-15-2006, 09:51 PM | #507 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Elfhelm wrote on the GLB thread:
"The reason we were told not to judge other people is because it was SUPPOSED to be a personal relationship between you and God, and sin, which is mostly from pride, is harmful TO THAT RELATIONSHIP because it puts distance between you. But the false version, the perversion of Jesus' teachings has included the establishment of an intervening priesthood, the creation of a political agenda, and the unceasing judgement of fellow beings - which in my book is a sin in itself. It is caused by pride. You can hem and haw, but I am not fooled. I'm too old to fall for verbal shenanigans. Read the Book and have your personal relationship with God. And keep your judgements to yourself. Thank you." I need to address several theological points in this, Elfhlem. I doubt we get to them all in any depth in a single post, so I'll list the ones I see that I think I can make an attempt to address. I) the issue of judge not that ye be not judged; II) the relations between God and the individual : positive and negative; III) perversion of Jesus' teachings; IV) the nature of priesthood; V) political agenda establishment by whomsoever about whatsoever; VI) actual judgments of behavior/persons/belief systems; VII) pride; VIII) reading the Bible;and, IX) my relationship with God and making judgments. Let's see. There are 3 for the Father, 3 for the Son, and 3 for the Holy Ghost. Since some flow from others rather reasonably, I think I'll start with II and see how we progress. Obviously, I am laying claim to being a Trinitarian Christian in the orthodox Anglican understanding of that Faith once received. So, I can refer you to the Apostle's, Nicene, and Athanasian Creed (so-called), and the Definition of Chalcedon for basics about the God/human interactions, the 39 Articles, and the Book of Common Prayer (1549 to current ECUSA, but the CoE standard is 1662 and that is the basis for most PB's in use however aligned to local conditions). Just so you'll know my primary mode of thought. Of course, these are understood to be the traditional Christian understandings of the Bible, which they summarize and employ. God, Great One-in-Three and Three-in-One, Source of all, Creator; Son, co-equal in Godhood, Incarnate of Mary Virgin, truly God and truly Man, Redeemer by life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension; Spirit, co-equal in Godhood, Gift and Gifter, Indwelling Advocate made all that exists, physical and spiritual, and humanity in His own image: male and female created He them, placed them in a world made good, and sought them for companions Humanity rebelled against God, falling from the Good to the rejection of the good because it didn't suit them (pride, putting themselves in the place of God - sin) and they willed disobedience. God took steps to rescue humanity from this sin and all sequelae because humanity could not repair the breach made by sin. Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary, son of God, step-fathered by Joseph, lived the sinless life Adam and Eve rejected with all their heirs, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried, descended into Hell, was resurrected, and ascended to the right hand of the Father, having made one, full, perfect oblation and satisfaction for the sin of the world, renewing the Creation and regenerating Humanity, which event is made present and effectual by the Holy Spirit, Who indwells believers, joining them into the life of the Blessed Trinity by faith. Short version: God made all good, including humanity. Humanity, head of all creation, chose disobedience/sin/pride and all humanity and all creation fell from right relation with God. God loved all persons so much that He made the restitution of humanity and creation possible by His own actions. All who receive His free gift are redeemed and creation is being renewed in that process. All who so choose may still refuse the Good and persist in rebellion and refusal of their true nature. In the end, God wins and all persons are accepting or rejecting of Him and so choose their eternal place: those who say to God, "THY will be done," and those to whom God says, "Thy will be done." Since, therefore, God who made us and redeemed us, gives us free will that is truly free, we may accept Him or reject Him, and it counts. So, human decisions and will are fraught with creative power of eternal consequence. There are no mere mortals, as CS LEWIS observed in The Weight of Glory but everlasting splendours or horrors. So, now you can see how I do VIII. I read the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the Church and in my heart. Therefore, IX and VI should fall into place. My priesthood is that of a believer, a member of a royal priesthood and a holy nation which instituted an ordered ministry of people like me (laity), diakonos (deacon), presbyter (priest), and episcopos (bishop) in general terms. The individuals in these orders are subject to the Body of Christ in the Holy Spirit. And all are subject to God, Who is no respecter of person (least not of His Own person given the Redemption!). Pride is my besetting sin. I still think that God needs my advice to run the world. Fortunately, He has a sense of humour about that, and a great deal of forgiveness and patience. I may be making a little progress, but probably not as much as I think. (VII). Which means I am responsible for acting out my beliefs in the political system I'm in - a democracy which gives me one vote. Fortunately (or not, perhaps, depending on your view point), I am allowed to reason my positions from the natural order and revelation to all and sundry who listen. Since, as do you, I find others do not agree, we may align with like-minded folks to achieve our political ends in a consistent moral, ethical, and legal fashion. (V). Which leaves (I) and (III). What perversion of Jesus' teachings are you alleging? - so I can respond accurately. The answer to that may well reveal (I). Ciao for now!
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-17-2006, 05:29 PM | #508 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
It's nice to hear what you believe, and I know it's supported by tradition. I don't believe tradition is correct on a number of these issues. But since I do believe that Jesus came to teach us to have a personal relationship with God, and since I believe that Jesus didn't want me to waste my time arguing esoterica, I'm not going to even attempt to "instruct" you to think like me.
Yet it remains true that on a different thread I pointed out that judging other people is something he said not to do. And the reason why is because it's not our job to live other people's lives. It's our job to live our own lives properly. For instance, Matt 7:5. I really can go on for hours about what I have discovered about how the Church has altered Jesus' teachings, but it will do no good. You have made up your mind and so have I. I know you have encountered people who think like me before and you probably have all kinds of arguments you would like to have. To me that whole pursuit is about as pointless as the trivial arguments that Jesus criticized the Pharisees about. Maybe he didn't realize it, but that was their way of having fun. Well, I think people who enjoy that kind of fun should hang out together. I'm not one of them. Needless to say, I'm not into the Sadducee thing either. As I said, I think he opposed the idea of a priesthood. You know darn well there were 40 other gospels. They are also worth reading, as well as the Apocrypha, as well as Kung Fu Tse and Lao Tse and Plato. Personally, I consider modern Christianity anti-Christ. I'm sure you've heard me say that before. Most people think I'm a crackpot. Let's just leave it at that, OK? |
05-17-2006, 10:17 PM | #509 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
You are allowed to leave it anywhere you wish, Elfhelm.
Forty other gospels? That is, quite frankly, an astonishing allegation. Elaine Pagels doesn't believe in that many, does she? She didn't when I read her latest ... but that was 2 yrs ago, I admit. And, truthfully, Elfhelm, I have never met anyone like you. You are unique, as is ever human on this planet, in history, and in the future that remains! However, I do NOT recall having met anyone with quite the collage of thoughts/beliefs you temporarily put on display in the last post. I rather gather we would be at odds over some of them, but if you mean by traditional the equivalent of fundamentalist in the pejorative sense of that world as used by popular media and low-wattage 'liberal thinkers', I doubt I qualify. Oh, well, you know the old saw about leading a horse to water.....
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-18-2006, 09:45 AM | #510 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
or casting pearls...
|
05-18-2006, 11:41 AM | #511 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
If one considers every book from that time period to be a simple story that we can learn from, possibly full of errors but with the message rather than the accuracy being the point, then it makes sense to add the 40 to the canon.
If we say that books have to be absolutely true in order to be part of the canon though, only the scriptures in the Bible pass the test. There is a great deal of evidence supporting their historical reliability. Accuracy is important.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 05-18-2006 at 11:48 AM. |
05-18-2006, 01:00 PM | #512 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
"But what remains is astonishing: some fifty-two texts from the early centuries of the Christian era--including a collection of early Christian gospels, previously unknown." - Elaine Pagels
Sorry, guess I underestimated |
05-18-2006, 01:02 PM | #513 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
05-18-2006, 01:36 PM | #514 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
Sure. One of many people who use the discoveries at Nag Hammadi to advance her cause. I must point out that it was inked, and not me, who brought her up. I do not use her as a reference. inked said he read her book a few years ago and she hadn't said there were as many 40 books found there. I simply pointed out that she said there were 52.
The book I have, which is actual translations, has only 39 texts. |
05-18-2006, 09:09 PM | #515 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
I would point out, Elfhelm, that aside from the four canonical Gospels, few if any predated St. Ignatius of Antioch writing "Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop" and "It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God". Being prior, it sorta seems like this is the authentic descendants of the teaching of Christ, and not the other view. Not that it necessarily must be, but I wonder why one would choose to believe in later views which suddenly spring up as opposed to going as far back as possible (which in fact is the Didache and the synoptic Gospels).
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
05-18-2006, 10:07 PM | #516 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Quote:
But what you refer to, and Pagels, are late 2nd to 4th century productions, and are not on a time par with the canonical gospels. Of course, any port in a storm.... Many of the productions are clearly deviant productions by special interest groups. To imply that they are equivalent in value is absurd unless you regularly attribute value to von Daniken et alia as science research.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
|
05-19-2006, 12:35 AM | #517 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
slight rabbit trail - re Lief's female Holy Spirit thing -
I just heard a few weeks ago that in John's gospel, John (un-grammatically!) specifically uses the masculine article to refer to the H.S. in a few places.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-19-2006, 01:53 AM | #518 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
You brought her up, inked, not me. Do you think I am a follower of this person? I don't follow. I study.
|
05-19-2006, 11:13 AM | #519 | |||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
|
Quote:
In Luke 2 we have the familiar story of the census under Qirinius, Joseph and Mary's travel from their home town of Nazareth, and the birth of Jesus in the manger. Then: Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
05-19-2006, 11:33 AM | #520 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
Quote:
My interest in the Gnostics is limited to seeking clues about early Christian thought. I personally consider all that business about a demiurge, whether via Marcion, the Gnostics, the Manicheans, or the Cathars, to be yet another syncretized mythology of purely intellectual interest. I do admit that certain Marcionist tendencies do exist in my own thought. I have never really been comfortable with the massacres at Jericho or of the Canaanites. Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-19-2006 at 11:39 AM. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, Part 1 | Valandil | LOTR Discussion Project | 26 | 12-28-2007 06:36 AM |
Rotk - Trivia - Part 3 | Spock | Lord of the Rings Books | 277 | 12-05-2006 11:01 AM |
LotR Films in Retrospect and Changed Opinions | bropous | Lord of the Rings Movies | 41 | 07-14-2006 10:14 AM |
Were the Nazgul free from Sauron for the most part of the Third Age? | Gordis | Middle Earth | 141 | 07-09-2006 07:16 PM |
Theological Opinions | Nurvingiel | General Messages | 992 | 02-10-2006 04:15 PM |