05-11-2008, 05:39 PM | #501 |
Elf Lord
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And a lovely scientific explanation for the coming ice age in 1974. It must be true because it was in TIME magazine and was all the rage amongst the scientists!
http://www.junkscience.com/mar06/Tim...June241974.pdf Do enjoy!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-11-2008, 05:48 PM | #502 |
Elf Lady
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Do I sense a eensy weensy bit of sarcasm there?
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05-12-2008, 12:17 PM | #503 |
Elf Lord
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Possibly a galaxy load of dark matter's worth, Mari!
Here's an interesting op-ed piece on the necessity of heresy in science, which I think would have been better put as "challenging the paradigm" but given the reaction one gets to challenging the paradigm here, perhaps heresy isn't off by that much . http://www.projo.com/opinion/contrib...9.39c488d.html
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-12-2008, 12:27 PM | #504 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Why Inked, it all depends on how you challenge what paradigm.
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05-13-2008, 11:49 AM | #505 |
Elf Lord
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Correct. Here is the current paradigm which needs to be challenged as outlined in the LA TIMES op-ed page...
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4443965.story After reading this hysterical piece side by side with the 1974 TIME hysterical rant, I feel balanced and harmonious and deeply, deeply exercised by that most heathful of all exercises . . . . . . . . . . . .laughter.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-14-2008, 06:11 AM | #506 |
Elf Lord
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For those unfamiliar with Kuhn, a paradigm is a framework for a scientific discipline. A paradigm denotes the investigations, methods and theoretical assumptions that underpin the ongoing work in a science.
This doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with each other, however. What it means is that areas of uncertainty can be explored using agreed methods. As data is accumulated, these areas are usually agreed upon and new areas of uncertainty are explored. For example, we move on from the question of "is the atmospheric CO2 increasing?" to "is this increase caused by man?"; from "does increased CO2 lead to climate change?" to "will this increase in CO2 cause climate change". This is called "normal science". What we have from the climate change sceptics is not science, nor is it a challenge to the prevailing paradigm. They present no new evidence nor any new credible methods for investigation. They simply recycle the same old arguments which have been disproven by the data. Saying that people in the 70s thought we were going into an ice age proves nothing, even if it was true (which it isn't). They are also dishonest: the volcanoes myth is a good example of a manifestly false assertion being accepted as fact. So, what we have is "normal science" being done by climate scientists, and propaganda being done by those with a vested interest in keeping the status quo, and their cheerleaders. |
05-14-2008, 06:17 AM | #507 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Quote:
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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05-14-2008, 08:23 AM | #508 |
Elf Lord
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Shucks, thanks CH.
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05-14-2008, 11:57 AM | #509 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Of course we need heresies in science. In spite of the attempts of those who would impose their anti-scientific beliefs (creationism, anti-global warming, "condoms don't stop AIDS") through political and economic power, constant examination of new evidence tends toward a closer approximation to truth- as defined pragmatically, of course.
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05-29-2008, 01:26 PM | #510 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-29-2008, 10:30 PM | #511 |
Elf Lord
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You have a bad case of Bush Derangement Syndrome. The reason for bad science in the USA is the dumbing down of education to appease the masses appeal to fairness. And this specific complaint has been going on since the Sputnik bit, which means for 50 + years. In fact, I've heard this little violin solo so many times I can play it with two fingers.
On the other hand, Al Gore has got rhythm and a Nobel Prize, so I guess only Democrats "get" science, eh? By the by, the list of Democratic Presidents responsible for this outcome in my living memory would be Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton I and II. Please note that the Democrats have controlled educational finances and "fairness" for more of the 20th Century than the Republicans, ergo, they are most responsible for this claim, aren't they? Or is it just a global warming side-effect to blame all the evil in the world on the Great Satan, George? Wait, I heard that on Iranian peace broadcasts, didn't I? or was it the BBC?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-29-2008, 11:36 PM | #512 |
Elf Lord
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I agree with you, Inked, that the damage to science education has been a long time coming, and under all kinds of administrations.
But the Bush administration has been almost without peer in their willingness to let political imperatives control science policy as well as education policy. The whole business around the Schiavo case is really typical. Those folk are mean and petty.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
05-30-2008, 02:03 PM | #513 |
Quasi Evil
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Absolutely. Its not so much about the funding of science in primary education (an almost separate topic in my opinion) as it is the overt almost anti-science approach the Bush administration has taken across the board. Has science truly become the “enemy” of conservatives? Correct my memory but I don’t recall Bush Sr. and even Reagan’s administration being so pugnacious and directly anti-science. And frankly I think it’s a big mistake, not just for the country and the scientific community at large, but for conservatives in specific. I don’t think being known as the party of science bashers is a useful thing in the long run. It may help in a school board election in Kansas but on a national scale Im thinking most people don’t want the government rejecting all aspects of science based solely on political agenda considerations.
And how we are viewed in the world (among scientists in other countries) has greatly changed since 2000. Not to mention the attraction of high level international science students and workers to American schools and companies has dropped significantly (although granted some of that is due to the fall out after 9/11).
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
05-30-2008, 03:34 PM | #514 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
How odd. Quote:
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05-30-2008, 03:55 PM | #515 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I wonder, being non-American, if the closing of the Office of Technology Assessment (now a good decade ago) has attributed to the current 'anti-science' climate? I believe they were instrumental in providing scientific advice in such matters to Congress.
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05-30-2008, 07:03 PM | #516 | |||
Elf Lord
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Bish, I'm going to pull out just the quotes from this Lindzen person from that article you posted that are about the science:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, there is nothing new here, they've just spun it together with a load of anti climate change statements of their own. Does Lindzen deny climate change? Does he think that we are not affecting it? And while we're on the funding issue, if people are getting money to do research on climate change, then that's a good thing. Public money is open to public scrutiny, which is more than can be said for the corporate moolah that lubricates these denial lobbyists. |
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06-04-2008, 04:49 AM | #517 |
Elf Lord
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Evidence of political interference in NASA to water down the climate change message:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...fclimatechange |
06-04-2008, 01:30 PM | #518 |
Quasi Evil
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Classic. What a bunch of scum bags.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
06-04-2008, 09:23 PM | #519 |
Elf Lord
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OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh, don't forget the evil New Zealander scientists:
http://nzclimatescience.net/images/P...ndscience3.pdf or http://nzclimatescience.net/index.ph...d=56&Itemid=35 or http://nzclimatescience.net/. Why anyone could forget that the first major proponent of the warming hypothesis advocated shall we say "variable reliability" in spreading the word: “We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” --Stephen Schneider Discover magazine, Oct 1989 To which, I should reply -scientifically, of course- "Classic. What a bunch of scumbags." But I would mean the hypologists for global warming as a means of social engineering on international scales and would therefore be wrong, right?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
06-05-2008, 04:41 AM | #520 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Lest we forget, Bush and his oil industry cronies had the head of the IPCC sacked and replaced with their man:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002....climatechange Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems that the IPCC has subsequently been overly conservative in its estimates of the impact of climate change: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6179409.stm Here we have evidence of interference, and evidence of a watered down message. Criminally negligent at best. |
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