03-26-2005, 05:12 PM | #501 | |
Elf Lord
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Here's an article I found extremely interesting. I wonder how such tissues as this could survive over such a long period of time. Anyway . . .
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03-26-2005, 05:44 PM | #502 | ||
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Wow, that's really interesting Lief! Maybe they were preserved in the same way you can get petrified wood? (I don't know how that works either, I'm just wondering...)
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03-28-2005, 05:46 PM | #503 | |||
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I did some thinking on this whole creationism vs. evolution issue. The creationists have a huge advantage - their belief in a god. See there is no evidence imaginable that could prove that God wasn’t involved in this or that. Whereas creationists in theory can come up with evidence against evolution (evolution is a science and thus there is always a chance you can disprove it), there is no way you can prove God didn’t have anything to do with the creation of life. You can’t really expect God would leave a fingerprint or a signature saying “Made in Heaven” in every living organism. No matter how hard you look, I believe it’s quite evident you won’t find any trace of God inside any life form. So what do we have? An invisible deity that has left no proof of his existence at all. Well, except for the so-called “intelligent design” which isn’t a good or even valid proof anyway. The word “intelligent” is highly subjective.
With evolution, you have to come up with some kind model. Creationists have a good time attacking the evolutionary models, claiming this and that proof isn’t good enough or is false. Creationism doesn’t really require a model. You can always fit God into any model imaginable. Not very scientific, don’t you agree? I was also thinking about how vast periods of time are critical for evolution. Creationists believe the earth is only a few thousand years old – Can it be that they think evolution can’t be true just because there haven’t been enough time for evolution to happen? Or don’t they believe in it because the Bible says every animal were created in such a way that they don’t change? I mean, what is the main reason for the creationists to believe evolution is wrong? Lack of time for evolution to take place, contradictions with the Bible, poor evidence for the theory in the first place… what? I found a good quote somewhere, said by one of the earliest evolutionists: If... the organic and physical world are perfectly adapted to each other, and... the physical world changes, then... the organic world should also change. But... according to special creation, the organic world does not change. Therefore... a contradiction exists. R*an, I just skimmed through your posts here - summary posts on why I believe the evidence supports creationism.. Quote:
Anyway there are many intermediate forms that have been found. Every time we find a fossil, we’re not always looking at the end of the evolutionary line. A completely new fossil could very well come from a species that has evolved into something else. The Neanderthals might not be our ancestors, but we have found fossils of humanoids that were both our and the Neanderthals’ common forefathers. If we could get their DNA too, we could establish our relationship even more closely than we can now by examining their bones. However I’m afraid creationists fail to see why similarities in DNA suggests a relationship. It’s God who makes himself reminded in their argumentation again – God wouldn’t have any problems whatsoever giving us and them similar DNA. Anyway, DNA is something that speaks for evolution and thus pretty much against creationism IMO… Um, I guess what I’m really trying to say is that there are intermediate forms. There are many examples besides from the one above. If there hadn’t been intermediate species, it would have been a blow to the theory of evolution. Now that intermediate species have been found, their existence proved (at least if you believe similarities in bone structure and DNA is evidence enough, and really, it should be enough unless you’re a creationist ) creationism seems less likely. Quote:
The thing is, it’s not strange there are some cases where things don’t really fit in with the theory of evolution but the majority of things do. In every field of natural science, there are exceptions from the rules due to other, sometimes unknown factors! It would almost have been strange if there hadn’t been any of these “stratigraphic leaks” Btw, I’ve got something of a proof that involves “out-of-order fossils” that speaks against creationism! . See, dinosaur foot prints have been found in places where you wouldn’t expect to see them – on steep, vertical cliffs. Does this mean dinosaurs could climb walls? Imagine a big heavy sauropod taking a walk on a precipice just like a spider! No, of course that wouldn’t have been possible. The cliffs must have been more horizontal when the dinosaurs left their footprints there. Without any traces of volcanos or earthquakes that shook the area, how can these cliffs have almost flipped 90 degrees? Well, geologists have always said the earth isn’t static, it moves and has done so for billions of years. These cliffs have during the past million years very slowly arisen and started to tilt, millimetre by millimetre. Millions of years! So unless creationists want to accept the fact that the earth is a little older than just a few thousand years, I guess they have to start trying to prove that dinosaurs had suction cups on their feet Quote:
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03-28-2005, 05:48 PM | #504 | |
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Quote:
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03-28-2005, 06:03 PM | #505 | ||
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Just wanted to say, tho, that this bit below is VERY much in error, IMO! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-28-2005, 06:05 PM | #506 | ||
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I disagree, but let's discuss it, by all means! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-28-2005, 06:19 PM | #507 | |
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I had fouhd this quote in someone's signature in the nation state's forum and I thought it was very appropriate to this discussion of creationism...
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03-28-2005, 06:37 PM | #508 |
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Ah, interesting quote! And I find it very appropriate to the discussion on evolution, so I'll run over and post it there
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-28-2005, 06:51 PM | #509 | |
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03-29-2005, 01:35 AM | #510 | ||
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Because clearly one of the major problems for creationists to grasp is the amount of time required for evolution. Earth isn't that old, thus evolution can't have had enough time to take place. But what about in the future? Millions of years from now? Will the organic world have evolved? Quote:
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03-29-2005, 08:17 PM | #511 | ||||
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If you mean what is commonly called "macroevolution" (fish to philosopher), then I do NOT believe that takes place, because I see little or no evidence for it taking place. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 08:34 PM | #512 | |||
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03-29-2005, 09:06 PM | #513 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 09:08 PM | #514 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 09:15 PM | #515 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-29-2005, 09:18 PM | #516 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-29-2005, 09:20 PM | #517 | |||||||||
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Yes, it's subjective, but we make these types of analyses all the time. That's what SETI is all about - the search for extraterresterial intelligence looks for certain types of things that indicate intelligence rather than randomness. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 09:22 PM | #518 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 09:25 PM | #519 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 09:42 PM | #520 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Edit - to put it bluntly - what you did was attacked evolution in post 446 and then tried to present your "scientific" evidence in post 447. Which basically was a post explaining WHY the evidence for evolution suppsoedly doesn't work without mentioning evolution by name.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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