Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[GrayMouser]

Since I'm always warning against making snap judgements this may be going out on a limb, but...

Doesn't it seem awfully convenient for Saddam that the two 'off-target' bombings in Baghdad just happened to be in crowded marketplaces?

Makes for very provocative media coverage- has anyone seen anything about what kind of neighborhoods they were- Shiite, maybe?

[markedel]

They were Shiite areas. I've heard they were errant (or not so errant?) Iraqi air defense munitions, but not for certain. I certainly wouldn't put it past Saddam.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by markedel
They were Shiite areas. I've heard they were errant (or not so errant?) Iraqi air defense munitions, but not for certain. I certainly wouldn't put it past Saddam.

The problem is - it doesn't even matter if it was our missile or his. The majority of the world, particularly the Arab world, would much rather believe it was ours and that we're targeting civilians. Hussein kills his own people, torutres them through the years, gassed thousands, yet people seem to think it ridiculous that Hussein would target his own people in order to inflict civilian casualities and use it as propaganda against the US.

We have always admitted in the past if we accidently hit a civilian target - I don't think this would be any different. Anyone who has seen the Iraqi press conferences can see that they are lying straight through their teeth on most things.

[jerseydevil]

Professor calls for 'million more Mogadishus'
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Columbia University said an assistant professor who made statements indicating he wanted to see U.S. soldiers killed, evidently to boost antiwar sentiment, was "exercising his right to free speech" and did not represent the university.

Assistant anthropology professor Nicholas De Genova said at an antiwar teach-in Wednesday night that he would like to see "a million more Mogadishus," according to one of the event's organizers.

He was referring to the Somali capital where 18 American soldiers were killed in 1993. The incident, the focus of the book and movie "Black Hawk Down," prompted the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the peacekeeping mission in Somalia.

De Genova also said that the American flag stands for imperialism and that it is impossible to be a patriotic American without also being an imperialist.

The university issued a statement saying De Genova "was speaking as an individual at a teach-in. He was exercising his right to free speech. His statement does not in any way represent the views of Columbia University."

Eric Foner, a history professor at Columbia who helped organize the teach-in, said Genova's statements were "reprehensible" and represented neither the views of the event's organizers nor the antiwar movement as a whole.

Freshman Philip Cartelli, one of the students who attended the teach-in, said there were small cheers after some of De Genova's controversial remarks. But he added that about half of the students "were rolling their eyes."

About 3,000 students, faculty and community members passed through the university's Low Library rotunda to hear roughly 30 professors speak there during the six-hour teach-in, Foner said.

The next day, Cartelli and a group of approximately students 50 students tried to deliver a letter to Lee C. Bollinger, Columbia's president, asking him to issue an official statement opposing the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

The students at that time were denied access to the Low Library building, which houses the offices of the president, but were permitted to later meet with Robert Kasdin, senior vice president at the university.

[jerseydevil]

I just wrote the following letter to this assistant professor who supports the death of our troops in Iraq as he sits in his ivory tower.

I just want to say that your statement concerning our troops was reprehensible. Where is your outrage against the way Iraq has tortured, raped and executed it's citizens? Where are the "die-ins" in front of the UN to condemn and protest the many dictatorial regimes which make up the UN? You know -the UN which just elected Libya chair of the Human Rights panel and Iraq to chair the Disarmament panel. That's like hiring criminals as prison guards. I find the so-called "peace marchers" very hypocritical and just demonstrating their anti-Americanism more than anything else.

If you're so anti-American and feel our troops should die - then why don't you go to Iraq and help Hussein kill them? While you're at it - why don't you go and help Hussein's regime kill his own people like he has been allowed to do by the international community for years? Are you not outraged by the atrocities Hussein has inflicted on his own people - or is that as long as you can't see it - it doesn't concern you? Or is it just that America is evil - so no matter what America does you will be against it? I'm sure Hussein would love to put your face on some posters declaring your support of killing OUR troops. After you're done helping Hussein maybe you can head over to North Korea. I think Kim Jung Il may accept your help in killing his people or at least use you in his propaganda speeches.

You have a right to your disgusting feelings - but you should really put your words into action instead of hiding in your ivory tower behind your "peace banner". Inaction while thousands were and are killed by Hussein is not something to be too proud of nor is it superior to what we are doing now. Inaction has NEVER solved the world's problems. Inaction has only delayed the inevitable while thousands - and in some cases hundreds of thousands - of innocent people have been killed under these brutal regimes.

We shoud have taken the battle to Baghdad back in 1991 - but instead we listened to the world community. We're finishing a job which should have been done 12 years ago and it's about time. Do I think we can take care of all the evil dictators? NO - of course not. Does that mean we shouldn't even try at all? Absolutely not. Appeasement has never worked at taking down these evil regimes, but has only allowed millions of innocent lives to be lost in the name of peace -World War II being a prime example.

I support our troops and the sacrifices they are making - if that makes me an imperialist then so be it. If America's "imperialism" will eventually bring down these regimes and bring possible peace to the world - then I support it. I'd rather support a side which is fighting for the elimination of the torture and rape of innocent Iraqis than to hide my head in the sand and let such atrocities continue. The only way to bring peace about in the world is to take these regimes on and to bring a better life to the people of these countries.

If your outraged (or if you're like BoP and what to extend your support) and wish to write to him this is his contact information....

Name: NICHOLAS PAUL DE GENOVA
Title: ASST PROF
Dept: ANTHROPOLOGY
Mail Addr: DEPT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
416 HAMILTON
mail code 2880
Phone: MS 4-0199
+1 212-854-0199
Fax: +1 212-854-0500
UNI: npd18
EMail: npd18@columbia.edu

This was obtained from the Columbia University's Faculty Directory so it is public information - if anyone is concerned.

[BeardofPants]

What makes you think I want to support the deaths of the US army?!

Edited: See my comments below. I said some things in this post that violate entmoot policy. I apologise.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
edited out - becuase BoP apologised and edited it out.

Could have surprised me.

By the way - I do recall you declaring in your sig the death to the people in the Bush Adminstration.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
If your outraged (or if you're like BoP and what to extend your support) and wish to write to him this is his contact information....

No smilie?......no winky?

What's happed to ya JD? You used to be a good debasor.......oops I mean debator

Waits patiently for the mods to delete the post

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
No smilie?......no winky?

Oh - I must have forgotten. Or maybe I just wasn't in the mood to be kind.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Oh - I must have forgotten. Or maybe I just wasn't in the mood to be kind.

Fair play........I enjoy a good fight meself on occasion..........

Shame this thread doesn't have the same atmosphere as the old Iraq thread

EDIT: Edited because BoP edited her post, therefore the text that I edited had no relavance to BoP's previous post, that was edited, leaving the quote (that I quoted, and subsequently edited) making no sense wotsoever.

I need sleeeeeppp.......

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
By the way - I do recall you declaring in your sig the death to the people in the Bush Adminstration.

Unbelievable, JD. Absolutely unbelievable. Again, I state: don't presume to think for me. I will never, and have never, supported wholesale slaughter. If you remember: I was against this war. That in itself should say something. I'm very angry with your baseless comments, and I would very much like an apology for it. Of course, since I'm a pessimist, I don't expect one.

As for my sig: it was meant in jest, as I believe I explained to Dunedain. (David Letterman's parody of Osama Bin Laden video's with"Oh yes, and death to America") I took it out because I was asked to by SGH, so I did. By putting it up, I was only aligning myself against George Bush. It did not mean that I actually wanted the man dead. However, I guess a sense of irony is not one of your strongest points, eh?

Anyway, something said in jest does not mean that I support the wholesale slaughter of American Troops. I want them to come home safely as much as the next person. I'm deeply hurt that you would think that I would want such a thing, JD.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Unbelievable, JD. Absolutely unbelievable. Again, I state: don't presume to think for me. I will never, and have never, supported wholesale slaughter. If you remember: I was against this war. That in itself should say something. I'm very angry with your baseless comments, and I would very much like an apology for it. Of course, since I'm a pessimist, I don't expect one.

I have never nor will I ever say I am sorry for something I am not sorry for.

By the way - we're not doing wholesale slaughter. We are workign very hard to NOT injure or kill civilians. Hussein has been freely practicing wholesale slaughter and torture for years though. The world seems perfectly happy to let that continue though. But then I guess that's because it's not the "big bad United States".

As for my sig: it was meant in jest, as I believe I explained to Dunedain. (David Letterman's parody of Osama Bin Laden video's with"Oh yes, and death to America") I took it out because I was asked to by SGH, so I did. By putting it up, I was only aligning myself against George Bush. It did not mean that I actually wanted the man dead. However, I guess a sense of irony is not one of your strongest points, eh?

You said what you said. That's all I know. You claim I shouldn't presume - so why should I PRESUME you were just joking?

Anyway, something said in jest does not mean that I support the wholesale slaughter of American Troops. I want them to come home safely as much as the next person. I'm deeply hurt that you would think that I would want such a thing, JD.

Well that sounds sincere - I may just come around to apoligising then - eventually. However, right now, I'm just not in the mood to apologise.

Too many peaceniks are way to happy to point the finger at America every chance they get - but take no action against the real atrocities in this world - and frankly - I'm tired of it.

[Elf Girl]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this, but I just want to show off the lovely letter to the editor my mother sent to the Boston Globe. (She has since recieved 2 anonymous phone calls and a bunch of emails praising her for it.) I wanted to put it somewhere, since I liked it very much.

Mom's letter to the editor.

[Lizra]

It really doesn't matter what I think. The war is happening. There is nothing I can do to affect anything that goes on over there, so... I will hope we win this war as quickly as possible, and leave it at that. I personally don't see any reason for America to try to win a "popularity contest". The chips will fall where they may.

[markedel]

How the chips fall matter, I think what people should really be doing is pressuring the U.S to nation-build responsibly. I have nothing against nation-building-but it has to be done right, with domestic cooperation, a long term commitment, good stable funding, and no corporate handouts. That's the real issue.

[GrayMouser]

Hey, it's starting to look like there are more U.S. generals involved in the assault on Rumsfeld than the assault on Baghdad.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Lizra
. I personally don't see any reason for America to try to win a "popularity contest".

Ever hear of 9/11?

[Lizra]

Yes Grey Mouser, I ve heard of 9/11. What does 9/11 have to do with popularity? I have my feelings of right and wrong. I do not need someone else's "sympathy" or condonation of anger to justify them. For me, the choice between Saddam Hussien's torture style dictatorship and western democracy is an easy one to make. I am tired of all the endless "mud slinging". Politicians are deciding the actions here, I have better things to do than debate back and forth "who's the biggest jerk". If I don't care for the course of action things are taking, I'll show my dissapproval at the voting booth. Getting in a flame war doesn't help much. (for me) As an American, I'm am tired of hearing about "evil America" when Saddam's decades of torment and torture speak louder than words. (To me)

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Unbelievable, JD. Absolutely unbelievable. Again, I state: don't presume to think for me. I will never, and have never, supported wholesale slaughter. If you remember: I was against this war. That in itself should say something. I'm very angry with your baseless comments, and I would very much like an apology for it. Of course, since I'm a pessimist, I don't expect one.


Anyway, something said in jest does not mean that I support the wholesale slaughter of American Troops. I want them to come home safely as much as the next person. I'm deeply hurt that you would think that I would want such a thing, JD.

I never thought that you or any of the anti-war protesters are in favor of slaughter. Your position as an anti-war protester implies that you think less death, in that case, will be caused by stopping the war. Is that what you think?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
I never thought that you or any of the anti-war protesters are in favor of slaughter. Your position as an anti-war protester implies that you think less death, in that case, will be caused by stopping the war. Is that what you think?

Some obviously are hoping for the slaughter of our troops - as demonstrated by that idiot professor from Columbia.

However - the lack of war does not mean there is peace. Atrocities will continue and thousands of people will continue to die as long as Hussein is in power. But as always - I haven't heard any demonstrators speak out against Hussein.