Religious Knowledge Thread

[Rían]

Originally posted by Baby-K
I have a few questions & I hope you guys can help me out:......?
7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.

I think I'll just merge 8 and 9 by saying that I think God DOES have a plan for our lives, but not like "today at 7:14 I want Baby-K to have eggs for brekker, NOT waffles". The Bible says that:

(1) God DESIRES for all people to be reconciled to Him (i.e., saved from their sins by what Jesus did on the cross - this involves us acknowledging Him as rightful Lord and living our lives in accordance with His will, which BTW is always the BEST and MOST JOYFUL thing for us anyway!)

(2) God's WILL for us is that we become CHRISTLIKE. And part of becoming Christlike will involve working through tough times (those times are not fun, but always really seem to help you grow in very deep ways). The Bible is FILLED with "God's plan" for us - to love others, to be kind, to help the widow and the orphan, to be joyful and thankful, to speak in an edifying way, to study God's word so it will be in our hearts and help us to live, to pray and ask God for wisdom, which He promises to give to us .... and the list goes on and on. So I think God's will is CHARACTER-DRIVEN, not EVENT-DRIVEN.

IOW, if we have to make a decision about whether we should move to New York or Los Angeles, I think EITHER ONE could be in accordance with God's will. What's important is that we pray for wisdom and insight for the decision, and we use our intelligence to evaluate the option in the light of God's priorities, which are always for our good (altho not always 'fun' at first, but ALWAYS great at the end!)

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
now RÃ*an are you scolding me again?

Yes, I scold people that make incorrect statements that can lead them into serious error .

basic christian question....what i want to know is why are the old and new testaments included in the same book when there is such a dramatic difference in the point of view of the two works (in terms of god and forgivness and all that)? i mean you dont actually have christianity until you hit the new testament right? so why include it as if its one big uninterrupted book? i know its a dumb question but have a go at me anyway. just curious.

No, it's NOT a dumb question at all! I have to get off now, but 30-second answer is IMO, the OT sets up who God is and who we are and the relationship between the two; the NT builds on this knowledge and provides the solution to fix the problem illustrated in the OT.

I'll check back on Monday and give more of MHO if Lief and Gwai haven't answered it first - we tend to agree on lots of things!

[Sminty_Smeagol]

IR your entmoot inbox is full - plz clear out

[Aralyn]

Thanx Lief and Rian
I'll let Rian continue her post before I add in my two cents.
I wanna see what all she has to say
~Aralyn~

[Lief Erikson]

One thing that needs to be noted first is that God's character is not inconsistant through the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Old Testament, he sent prophets to people to cause them to turn away from their sin, and they died when they rejected him. In the New Testament, we see the same thing. Those who refuse the Lord die in hell- it's no different. They wind up in the same place.

Meanwhile, in the New Testament the weapon changes. Sin is still cut out of the body, but it is with the sword of the spirit, rather than the physical blade. Christians are still all warriors for God, against the devil.

Another thing is that the destructions in the Bible are acts of justice by God. The different peoples that were destroyed were deep in terrible sin, and were unrepentant of their action. When the Lord saw that the people had the potential to be changed, he sent a prophet, as in Ninevah. With others, he brought justice. The Old Testament shows the justice, and shows the law of the Lord. The New Testament shows the fulfillment of the law. The fulfillment of the law was why Jesus came, and I believe that he fulfilled the law by planting his seed in man, giving them the ability to return to him out of their state of impoverished sin.

1 John, 3:8-10
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother

I was really enjoying some neat insights I had while reading 1 John. That's a book of the Bible that really helps to explain some important things about God.

1 John, 2:4-6
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

1 John, 4:7-9
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John, 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

Another thing to note is that hell isn't the same for everyone as far as how fierce or horrible it is. There are passages of the Bible that illustrate that point, and I really am glad for their existence, because they demonstrate well the justice of God, and that is helpful to me.

Another thing that has to be noted is that many of the people in the Old Testament didn't know about Christ because he hadn't made it to Earth yet, but they made it to heaven anyway. The previous passages have demonstrated that one can know God simply by loving. "Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." That's a very important statement, there.

The Old Testament also seems to be more focusing upon God's command of the nations, when it demonstrates his causing nations to fight each other and destructions in various places. There is such a thing as a corporate sin that a nation is guilty of, rather than just the leader.

The New Testament is more focusing upon the internal life, but let's look at the one prime example of life between nations that's visible in the New Testament. Revelation.

A holocaust of the human race is basically what's described there, and a huge spiritual and physical war. Jesus is commanding it, too. The character of God has remained the same.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
It really depends which branch you are following Gwai.....In my experience 99% do practice certain ceremonies.......sometimes in a "formal" gathering, sometimes by lone worshippers.

Thanks Coney. I was beginning to be afraid that my question had been swallowed up by the Evolution/Creation argument...

[GrayMouser]

Another thing is that the destructions in the Bible are acts of justice by God. The different peoples that were destroyed were deep in terrible sin, and were unrepentant of their action. When the Lord saw that the people had the potential to be changed, he sent a prophet, as in Ninevah. With others, he brought justice. The Old Testament shows the justice, and shows the law of the Lord

Numbers 31`

I don't want to repeat the whole thing, it's in the "Offshoot Discussions" thread

If you call ramming swords through pregnant women or smashing babies' heads against the rocks "justice" , I guess we'll just have to disagree on the meaning of the word.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

GrayMouser, this thread is not for bashing religions, or religious discussion. In my first post, I specifically stated this; it is only for assimilation of knowledge about other religions. You have strong anti-Christian sentiments (like so many on this board); that's fine, you have the right to hate whoever you want, but please, do not use (and especially dig up) a thread where it is specifically stated that it is not for stuff like that, and especially just so you can use bash a religion in the same way in a number of different places.

[Rían]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Numbers 31`

I don't want to repeat the whole thing, it's in the "Offshoot Discussions" thread

If you call ramming swords through pregnant women or smashing babies' heads against the rocks "justice" , I guess we'll just have to disagree on the meaning of the word.

GrayMouser -

If what you quoted is the only bit you read, then you are treating a very serious and complex subject in a very trite manner.

And re the pregnant women - do you think abortion should be legal? If 'yes', go to 1; if 'no', go to 2.

1. Then please don't use the example of 'pregnant women' for a cheap emotional effect, since you think it should be legal to kill a baby growing inside a pregnant woman. (please skip 2 and go to 3)

2. I'm so glad you realize what a terrible thing abortion is. (please go to 3)

3. Let's respect Gwai's thread and take this somewhere else, shall we?

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
[B]3. Let's respect Gwai's thread and take this somewhere else, shall we?

yea we should...but then we get in trouble for "dredging"

[Rían]

What's "dredging"?

ANd you can take it to my "Offshoot of what religion are you" thread, which is specifically for this type of thing.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Dredging is digging up long-dead topics without any real purpose. I don't think that would be a problem, LFA, specially since he posted in the offshoot topic before he posted here.

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

if i brought it up...would people debate in it? cuz its something that i would like to discuss further

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Actually, it's being debated right now, in the offshoot thread.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Okay, I have a question:

1. For Catholics.

What is the Catholic take on this passage in connection with Justification:

Ephesians The Holy Bible, King James Version


Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 (KJV)
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I also had a question for Jews, but I don't remember it...

Dread mothy lords tend to be dimwitted.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Okay, I have a question:

1. For Catholics.

What is the Catholic take on this passage in connection with Justification:



I also had a question for Jews, but I don't remember it...

Dread mothy lords tend to be dimwitted.

I seem to be the only practicing CAtholic here...it's very hard to defend my beliefs when I am the only who believes them..I guess I'm just weak like that...anyhow...I probably won't post much anymore because I am the only one defending Catholicism and to tell you all the truth, its very tiring and I have limited time, perhaps after a bit of soul searching and some praying about patience I will be ready to talk again. But I must say, justification is only be Christ, without Him we cannot even hope to see a glimpse of Heaven, however, we are the ones who decide if we want to follow or not; to set foot upon the stragt and narrow path or the wide and curving one. Most protestants disregard the epistle of James....the bible cannot contradict itself so good works are necessary.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oh dear, sorry for pestering you, Arien.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Oh dear, sorry for pestering you, Arien.

that's ok...I didn't mean to sounds mad or anything...I'm just a little sad and worn out. I've been gone this whole weekend and I was reading the "Offshoot discussion of religion" and it just struck me as to how many people really have a problem with the Catholic Church. Because of my upbringing and the ways religion have been introduced to me, I take GREAT offence to it and I think that it's best that I don't respond for a while. It's times like thesse that I wish I would ave kept to my plan about getting a degree in theology...that way I could perhaps defend my Church better...I feel as if I've let God down...I know the whole thread isn't about that but I can't help but feel it

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
that's ok...I didn't mean to sounds mad or anything...I'm just a little sad and worn out. I've been gone this whole weekend and I was reading the "Offshoot discussion of religion" and it just struck me as to how many people really have a problem with the Catholic Church. Because of my upbringing and the ways religion have been introduced to me, I take GREAT offence to it and I think that it's best that I don't respond for a while. It's times like thesse that I wish I would ave kept to my plan about getting a degree in theology...that way I could perhaps defend my Church better...I feel as if I've let God down...I know the whole thread isn't about that but I can't help but feel it

I'm sorry to hear that. I personally don't have a problem with the Catholic Church; I can't reconcile some of their beliefs to my own, and of course there's the matter of the past, but I have absolutely NOTHING against Catholics, or the Church. I still agree with John Paul, about focussing on the similiarities, rather than the differences.

EDIT: And I know what you mean...I've felt like I've let God down too in the past (probably have more times than even I care to recall), but you know what? He still loves us.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I'm sorry to hear that. I personally don't have a problem with the Catholic Church; I can't reconcile some of their beliefs to my own, and of course there's the matter of the past, but I have absolutely NOTHING against Catholics, or the Church. I still agree with John Paul, about focussing on the similiarities, rather than the differences.

EDIT: And I know what you mean...I've felt like I've let God down too in the past (probably have more times than even I care to recall), but you know what? He still loves us.

I know ...it's always reassuring to know that God loves you know matter what...it just makes it harder when you do sin and all...it really feels as if you let Him down....the whole thing is a strange feeling