10-05-2005, 01:03 PM | #481 | ||
Elf Lord
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I agree that it's irrelevant, though. I also agree that it's principally a moral issue, in fact. It is morally abhorrent to discriminate against homosexuals, IMO. Last edited by Spock : 10-05-2005 at 01:14 PM. |
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10-05-2005, 01:08 PM | #482 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Spock : 10-05-2005 at 01:15 PM. |
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10-05-2005, 02:41 PM | #483 |
Elf Lord
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The Gaffer,
Profess...confess: they are different words! As in: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...112856,00.html So, rather than ignore the lack of data, let's just profess that all sexually uncertain persons are gay! I think that's politically correct thing to do, don't you? So the 13 - 30% (depends on the data cited!) who choose wrongly (might be 100%!) can never default on their error, huh? That way they can experience the love and warmth of social exclusion for being bisexual, transgendered, and incorrect (that's known as ex-gay, by the way) that exudes from the only truly loving group of morally correct persons in the universe - gay people - as so attested on this site. Pardon me for disagreeing, but there seems to be room for disagreement according to this Time magazine article. (It must be true because the gay gene and the god gene both made the cover of Time! )
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-05-2005, 02:45 PM | #484 | |
Elf Lord
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I might disagree with your concept of morality if it involves forcing people to make limited decisions from a stridently, demarcated base of feeling rather than fact.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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10-05-2005, 02:47 PM | #485 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...sigh...
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10-05-2005, 03:01 PM | #486 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Same goes for me with my attraction to other men - if I think it's wrong to have sex with any man I find attractive, then I will fight against that desire. It doesn't matter how the desire got there. And if homosexuals think that it's wrong to have sex with a person of the same sex, then they'll fight against that desire. It doesn't matter how it got there. And if homosexuals think it's good to have sex with a person of the same sex, then they'll do it. It doesn't matter how that desire got there. If I think it's wrong to be Irish/Scottish/English, then it doesn't matter if I fight against it or not - it can't be changed; it's not a behavior. And when you say, "Homosexuality is not a choice", do you mean that homosexuals have absolutely NO control over how they act out on their sexual urges? That any time they feel an urge to have sex, they can't control that urge at all, even if they're in the middle of a shopping mall or something? I hope you would grant that they have at least SOME control over their urges, because it's pretty insulting if you don't! Quote:
It is NOT about straight people arguing over whether gays deserve equality, and I resent any implication that I think they are NOT equal! Hmmph! I'm SO tired of that false charge. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-05-2005 at 03:03 PM. |
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10-05-2005, 03:05 PM | #487 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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per Felix Unger: "never assume as it makes an ass/u/me"
Equality is in the eye of the beholder and not necessarily in law. Keep it civil folks.!!
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-05-2005, 03:06 PM | #488 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-05-2005, 03:09 PM | #489 |
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What I cannot understand is how people can say with a straight conscience, oh, tell homosexuals IN PARTICULAR that they musn't have sex, because it is wrong for them to be a homosexual and wrong for them to follow their instinct to want to enjoy being who they are, and have safe sex with one another. This is what burns me up. What gives ANYone the right to deny another group their pleasure in life? SO incredibly morally unjust to do that!
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10-05-2005, 03:12 PM | #490 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Morality is determined by society and unfortunately society evolves faster than our notion of morals. It is not logical but it is often true.
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10-05-2005, 03:15 PM | #491 | ||
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What's the issue with this? Isn't a homosexual someone who desires sex with a person of the same sex? Quote:
And you know what? "People that like to do it missionary style" is certainly a group with a behavior in a certain area, too! And if I was giving a marriage seminar, I would like to talk to that group and make some suggestions to them I am NOT saying homosexuals all act a certain way, except in the one area of how they like to act on their sexuality. Is there a problem with that?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-05-2005, 03:17 PM | #492 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And why not let groups marry, if they so desire? And why not let brother and sisters marry, if they so desire? If that's what you think is good and right for society, then vote for it And I'll vote for what I think is good and right for society.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-05-2005, 03:20 PM | #493 |
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I don't understand any of this anymore. I think I'm going to stop posting in any of these threads - evolution, religion, sex, abortion, what have you. Because so many hairs get split, and so much unnecessary misinformation and misunderstanding and sometimes flat-out ugliness keeps happening, over and over again, and it seems like hardly any of the mooters can maintain a reasonable debate without devolving into hair-splitting and in some way or another, attacking or defending each other based on the ol ' he said/she said baloney. Even I get sucked into doing this, much to my own embarrasment. What a waste. Ciao.
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10-05-2005, 03:21 PM | #494 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But if it comes to a vote about laws in society, then I, as a member of society, will carefully and thoughtfully exercise my right to vote how I think is right for society, just like anyone else. And I encourage everyone else to do the same. And of course, we ALL deny certain groups what they consider their pleasure in life - that's why we have people in jails!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-05-2005, 03:30 PM | #495 | |
Quasi Evil
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And you apparently also believe that mob rule is the best way to determine what is "good and right" for society. Right? Because the majority of the population never determined that it was ok to enslave another human being or that it should be illegal for blacks to marry whites, etc. The simple fact that people can vote in discrimination in a democratic environment means its "good and right" to descriminate right?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-05-2005, 03:38 PM | #496 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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More later - I'm tired now.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-05-2005, 03:54 PM | #497 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(ps - what's your definition of "mob rule", btw? Is it when you disagree with the majority? And when you agree with the majority, it's somehow NOT "mob rule"? )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-05-2005, 03:55 PM | #498 |
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*hair-splitting, hair splitting.*
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10-05-2005, 03:59 PM | #499 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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10-05-2005, 04:01 PM | #500 |
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I can't help it, Spock! I just can't HELP it. LOL!!
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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