02-06-2006, 08:14 AM | #481 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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02-06-2006, 05:52 PM | #482 |
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Two articles from Ruth Gledhill ... THE TIMES ...
more serious: RELIGIOUS HATRED AND MUHAMMED CARTOON http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gled...ious.html#more and humor and Christians: MUSLIM CARTOON http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gled...muha.html#more
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-06-2006 at 05:53 PM. |
02-06-2006, 08:23 PM | #483 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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It's funny; cartoons making fun of Jesus or Jews or Buddha, are generally laughed at and tolerated. You don't see Buddhists, Jews or Christians running around burning cars, buildings, etc. because of one.
"Lawrence perhaps said it best" .....a small people, greedy, barbarous and cruel.......
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02-07-2006, 06:18 PM | #484 |
Elf Lord
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A quote from BBC News:
An Iranian paper is holding a contest for cartoons about the Holocaust, to retaliate against the publication of images of the Prophet Muhammad. Hamshahri says it wants to test the boundaries of free speech, echoing the reasons European papers gave for publishing the caricatures. There have been protests about the images across the Muslim world, where they are seen as insulting and racist. One showed Muhammad, whose image is banned in Islam, as a terrorist bomber. "Does the West's freedom of expression extend to... an event such as the Holocaust or is this freedom of expression only for the desecration of the sanctities of divine religions?" the best-selling paper said in its announcement.
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02-07-2006, 06:27 PM | #485 | ||
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02-07-2006, 06:53 PM | #486 |
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Some are beginning to understand the ramifications, even among the liberal environs of NYC!
"More specifically, will Westerners accede to a double standard by which Muslims are free to insult Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism, while Muhammad, Islam, and Muslims enjoy immunity from insults? Muslims routinely publish cartoons far more offensive than the Danish ones . Are they entitled to dish it out while being insulated from similar indignities?" http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3360
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-07-2006 at 06:54 PM. |
02-07-2006, 07:00 PM | #487 |
Quasi Evil
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Take a breath people... Dont run to join the WE HATE YOU crowd on this.
Like Bop and others Ill reiterate what Ive already said elsewhere... Religious fanatics suck. Thats all it comes down to. Most non-muslims think the cartoons were in bad taste and probably a bad idea (why publish something you know will result in the deaths of others just because you can?). Most Muslims werent burning consolates and trying to kidnap people. But thats what gets the press. The extremists. If there had been ONLY marches of protest against the cartoons and no fires and attacking buidings that would have been fine right? Well Id say 99% of those involved in these demonstrations did NOT burn buildings and such. Im also guessing that the Danes and the others placed something right in the laps of the terrorists and extremists that they could use to their advantage to divide our cultures even further. Not sure why you would want to do that really. Dumb choice. And now the extremists have the day... It only further reinforces to me the idea that ANY religious extremism is a bad thing. A question: why did the Danish government refuse to meet with the original muslim group that wanted an apology about the first (September) posting of the cartoon? I mean why not just meet with them and explain hey we had nothing to do with it we don’t endorse it but we DO have free expression blah blah. Then the muslims could have at least said well at least they came back to us and we had a dialogue. Instead they outright refused to even talk with the muslim council. And then you had the reprinting of the cartoons which we can only consider to be a direct provocation and an ‘in your face’ gesture. And then we are shocked that muslims around the world flip out over this… What I find ironic in all this is that so many western people complain that muslims refuse to "integrate" into western culture and yet we expect them to simply accept and deal with the concept of "free expression", a concept that is largely unknown in many Islamic nations. So isnt that some form of hypocrisy there? Finally I ALSO want to say that I see this videos of muslims protesting and the burning of buildings and I do feel disgust and anger. I find myself saying “you stupid ****ing punks. Just relax. Why do you need to react so violently over nothing”. And this makes me realize just how dangerous an event like this is. It’s the perfect vehicle FOR the extremists on both sides to incite anger in everyone and cause division. And for this reason I think we need to make every attempt to be conscious of that and resist the first urges to look down on the other party for engaging in an activity that seems to go so against what EACH of us holds as moral or fundamental to OUR culture. Or else we continue this spiral down toward hatred, blaming the other person/culture and building up the bile for them with every new event.
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02-07-2006, 07:04 PM | #488 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-07-2006, 08:00 PM | #489 | |||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-07-2006, 09:06 PM | #490 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-07-2006, 09:37 PM | #491 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Gee, if we follow their example, we can start bombing mosques, burning homes and shooting anyone who looks like they might practice Islam........seems the rules only work ONE WAY for them.
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02-07-2006, 11:52 PM | #492 | |
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02-08-2006, 02:52 AM | #493 |
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I like what Martin Luther King Junior said about extremists. He said that he was initially disappointed at being called an extremist, but that gradually he began to take pride in the term.
"The question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be. Will we be extremists for hate or for love?" Being extreme or "fanatical" is fine, provided that one is extreme for what is right rather than for what is wrong. I agree with you that some religious fanatics are class-A haters, and that is a terribly negative form of fanaticism. I hope that I am a religious fanatic though, for to me Christianity is a source of great goodness and being fanatic about doing good (provided I'm not rude, arrogant, judgmental and nasty, though if I was, this would not be fanaticism about doing good but fanaticism about doing evil in the name of good, which is even worse) is positive. If I were only casually interested in my religion, I would only be casually interested in goodness, because for me the two go together. I really think people should be extreme for doing what is right. If a religion or its interpretation is bad, fanaticism for that religion is bad. If a religion or its interpretation leads to good things though, fanaticism for that religion is good. I really like Martin Luther King Jr.'s claim that people should be extremists for love.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-08-2006 at 03:06 AM. |
02-08-2006, 03:11 AM | #494 | |
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02-08-2006, 03:22 AM | #495 | |
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02-08-2006, 03:24 AM | #496 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-08-2006 at 03:27 AM. |
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02-08-2006, 11:18 AM | #497 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-08-2006, 11:20 AM | #498 |
Elf Lord
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All hatred is religious in origin? Is that really being argued as a valid point here?
Recall the 20th century. The atheistic societies of communism routinely practiced hatred toward other groups - ethnic and religious or both, even merely political antagonists. And this gives the lie to the contention that hatred has religious origins, does it not?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-08-2006, 02:27 PM | #499 |
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Who said that all hatred is religious in origin?
RELIGIOUS FANATACISM and it's rabid, idealogical, dangerous, mean-spirited, hypocritical, intolerant, judgemental, hate-filled, elitist adherents SUCK. I think Martin Luther King Jr. would agree to this. Any fanaticism, religious or political, that espouses VIOLENT, HATE-FILLED INTOLERANCE AND BIGOTRY would be high on Martin Luther King, Jr.'s list of things that suck the big one.
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 02-08-2006 at 02:30 PM. |
02-08-2006, 02:56 PM | #500 | |
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