11-09-2004, 09:00 AM | #481 |
Fair Dinkum
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Location: Houston, TX
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When did you start believing in your agnostic/atheist beliefs, or have you always held them? Were you raised in an atheist household?
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11-09-2004, 02:23 PM | #482 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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What are your thoughts/feelings on the looting of the Antiquities Museum in Iraq?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-09-2004, 02:43 PM | #483 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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11-09-2004, 02:56 PM | #484 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I had duck once in Hawaii - it was good!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-09-2004, 03:49 PM | #485 | |
Elf Lord
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WHY HOLD THE POV THAT MORALITY IS HUMANLY DETERMINED CONSTRUCT? WHAT ABOUT MORALITY IS RELATIVISTIC? WHAT IS THE UNDERLYING COMMONALITY OF MORALITY? WHY KNICK PANTS?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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11-09-2004, 04:11 PM | #486 | |||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-09-2004, 04:21 PM | #487 | |||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-09-2004, 04:25 PM | #488 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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There are two points in your answer that I'd like to bring out. One - I wasn't asking about how a "universe" might choose to personify itself. Two - I wasn't talking about "personifying" at ALL. I was talking about how a god/more powerful being that created the universe might choose to create a type of being that he/she/it desired to relate to at some level. Your answer came ENTIRELY from your preconceived notions about what this god, if he/she/it exists, is like. There are other reasonable ideas out there about what this god might be like, and you are not taking these into account, and I'm asking you to consider the question from this different angle, and NOT in terms of personification. So would you please re-read my question and give it a shot? Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-09-2004, 04:28 PM | #489 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(btw, I agree - what a loss! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-09-2004, 04:40 PM | #490 | ||||||||
the Shrike
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Inked, your quotes are really hard to re-quote when they're imbedded in someone else's quotes.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-10-2004, 05:09 AM | #491 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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What's the Antiquities Museum, and what happened to it? How do you spell 'happened'?
Do you think there are other sentient beings in the Universe? What do you think they are like, if so?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-10-2004, 06:24 AM | #492 | |
The Intermittent One
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but there you have it |
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11-10-2004, 04:12 PM | #493 | |
Elf Lord
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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11-10-2004, 04:40 PM | #494 | |||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 11-10-2004 at 04:49 PM. |
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11-10-2004, 04:48 PM | #495 | ||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-10-2004, 05:26 PM | #496 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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11-10-2004, 05:45 PM | #497 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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i believe there must be some kind of creating force, but not like any "God".
beacuse the Big Bang couldn't have emerged from nothing. but i think we never can find it out. that makes me an agnosticker dosen't it?
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11-10-2004, 06:36 PM | #498 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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11-10-2004, 08:06 PM | #499 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Well, why not a "God"? I agree that something can't come from nothing, but that argument doesn't eliminate a God any more than it eliminates anything else. In other words, it would also elimate the entire universe starting from ANYTHING - God or goo. What is DOES indicate is that SOMETHING had to be self-existent (i.e., non-created) in order for ANYTHING ELSE to exist, and that the universe came from that self-existent thing/being. And actually, that describes the God of the Bible perfectly
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-10-2004, 09:16 PM | #500 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
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If you genuinely hold that humans cannot know about the issue of the "creating force" then you are agnostic about that. If you hold that we cannot know about "God" then you are agnostic about that. The question then becomes "can we know" or "how do we know"? Is it possible to know anything? Are you a thorough agnostic? BoP, you wrote: "As far as I am concerned, the universe just exists. There's no God-force, if you will, no creator. That's what I mean by the divine aspect. " I suspect my confusion is the use of the word divine which means of , or relating to gods (divinities) or God (God-like). If the self-existent universe is divine, how do you deny it personality, for in Western thought the gods or God are self-aware and therefore personalities. The universality of the incest taboo is like the universality of marriage, BoP. The normative human behaviour and regulation is forbidding closely related individuals from reproducing. The anomalous cases are those which permit it. You acknowledge the exceptional nature of the societies which permit it but then assert they are proof of a non-moral source which you state is not damaged reproduction. Earlier you said "I guess what I said earlier, that for me to believe in it, it has to be quantifiable. Logical. Based on a body of evidence - scientific evidence." So which evidence is stronger for normative behaviours? Which, on the evidence, is anomalous? according to your belief system? Elfhelm, You attribute the incest taboo to an anthropological statement of economic necessity, yet the taboo seems to be existent in societies before that level of sophistication, so how did it arise before the economy instigated it? Aren't you reading back into earlier states a latter development? Hey, BoP, I think your're the hot-seater, but I just had to tie those two questions together. You can steal Elfhelm's pants for revenge.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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