10-18-2004, 11:05 PM | #481 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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and don't tell ME what MY intent was
and I wasn't aware of the facts on that one reporter, and I DID consider what you wrote, and the facts about that one reporter made me even MORE worried about it. So what part of my conclusion - "report the facts impartially and let the people decide" - do you disagree with?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-19-2004, 02:42 AM | #482 |
The Dude
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[QUOTE=Fenir_LacDanan]Well Fox News, news that I have seen you argue, god bless their unbiased souls, QUOTE] yeah i seem to remember it was Fox that painted Manson as responsible for columbine, ohhh when you think of it like that maybe Michael Moore can portray the truth better than Fox
Im just curious (because in Australia its compulsory to vote) if anyone is planning on not voting in this election or what your thoughts on people who dont vote are? i know over here you always get the people who take voting as the most serious thing theyve ever done, mum thinks she's one of those people so i told her i was voting for the Family First party, she didnt think that was funny
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10-19-2004, 09:44 AM | #483 |
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For you who support the Kerry / Edwards ticket, could you please tell me about what those candidates have done?
Kerry, to my understanding, has never introduced any significant legislation. In 1990, he opposed the first Gulf War, but that possibly cost him serious consideration as a VP running mate choice. So, in the late 1990's he FAVORED an invasion of Iraq, even while Clinton was President, and obviously before 9-11 of 2001. He voted in favor of Bush's proposed invasion, then voted against funding for it. In a crowded field of Democratic candidates, who were mostly anti-war, he probably pulled out the nomination because he was the most pro-war. Now that public sentiment is swinging the other way, all he can do is condemn the war. What does he REALLY think about it? What would he REALLY do? Do we even have anything to go on to make a good judgement about that? Edwards, as I understand it, has been 'Senator No-show'... what has HE ever done?
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10-19-2004, 12:08 PM | #484 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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here's a expansive list of what kerry's done while in congress >here<
on the war... from all i've heard, he seems to have thought of taking out saddam as a good thing... but he is very against the way it was carried out... not enough planning on winning the peace, and not enough effort to bring the rest of the world behind us on the effort on the funding, he said his issue was with the way the money was being spent... when reps vote in congress, nine times out of ten they know whether or not a bill is going to pass... they don't have to all vote at once either... so often they make "statement" votes... basically saying, this bill can be constructed in a better way it was never a question that the money would be appropriated one way or another the world of politics is full of grey areas... and a good politician must play the game to get their initiatives ahead... which sometimes means accepting some things you are against in order to get something for your own constituants
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10-19-2004, 12:13 PM | #485 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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One thing that bugs me about Sen. Kerry is how he keeps saying he'll bring allies in. I don't see how he has the authority or knowledge to speak for what other nations will choose to do. I think it would be more honest to say "I'll try harder to bring allies in", or something along those lines. But he's just flat-out saying he'll bring allies in.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-19-2004, 01:25 PM | #486 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
Quote:
So what part of that original reply did you interpret as me disagreeing with your statement exactly?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-19-2004, 01:26 PM | #487 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-19-2004, 02:37 PM | #488 |
The Blobbit
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As an aside, I mentioned recently (ie. 100 and something pages back ) that an English paper had suggested letter writing to people in swing states to persuade them not to vote for George Bush. I have now done research.
The idea is from the broadsheet The Guardian, a great bastion of typos, and a paper more to the tastes of The Gaffer than to mine. In the daily suppliment, it suggested people write to voters in Clarke County, Ohio, on of the swingest of swing states. A quote from suggested wording by Richard Dawkins, Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford: An idiot he [George Bush...] may be, but he is also sly, mendacious and vindictive... thuggish idealogues... pariah state... brazenly lying... cynical mendacity... But here's the interesting bit: Now that all other justifications for the war are known to be lies, the warmongers are thrown back on one, endlessly repeated: the world is a better place without Saddam. No doubt it is. But that's the Tony Martin school of foreign policy. [Tony Martin was a farmer in England who shot and killed an intruder on his property in 1999.] Now. I would like to know. Would this make you vote Democrat?
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. Last edited by Janny : 10-19-2004 at 04:17 PM. Reason: I cannot spell. Not at all. And I omit verbs. THIS WAS EDITED AFTER BEING QUOTED |
10-19-2004, 03:57 PM | #489 | |
Hobbit
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Quote:
well I can't vote (Canadian) but if I could I would vote Kerry (well truth to tell not so much a vote for Kerry, more of a vote against Bush). But I doubt such a pley would swing my vote, if it was the other way around. People have been saying this kind of thing for so long, so many elections so much mud slinging that people are becoming desensitized. If you want to make a point I would suggest finding hard facts, andpresenting them in a clear uncluttered, unbiased way. Along the lines of In a speach on Oct 3 2004 George W. Bush stated "fact#1" but these reports prove that "fact#1" was false and this other report proves that Mr. Bush knew that "fact#1" was false prior to Oct 3 2004 |
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10-19-2004, 04:07 PM | #490 |
The Blobbit
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Thanks, welcome and I think I need to rephrase.
I'm not quite sure to whom the 'you' in paragraph three refers, but I think you may have misunderstood what I meant to ask. (Certainly the question was indeed cluttered and biased. ) Especially with reference to the case of Tony Martin, would the parallel drawn here make you more or less likely to vote democrat?
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
10-19-2004, 04:11 PM | #491 | |
Hobbit
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Quote:
oops the you meant whoever was handing this out. Tony Martin, hometown tragedy, it would enrage me against the author, while some people would take up the connection right away, those people would probably already be voting Kerry....but that is just my opinion, so is worth nothing. |
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10-19-2004, 04:23 PM | #492 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
And another thing that bugs me is when the non-incumbent, of whatever political persuasion, talks like "when I'm president, I'll do such-and-such", like speaking of it as a fact somehow will dupe people to vote for them! Or to a lesser degree, when the incumbent says "in the next 4 years, I'll do such-and-such". At least he is President already, but that's no guarantee that he'll be in for another 4 years. Politics bug me, because there is so much spin and deception going on. The number of conflicting stats is amazing! How can one person have one count of something and another another count of the same thing? Then you read how they got their counts, and they're both semi-valid, but intended to promote THEIR side. A classic example was the percentage of deaths on "our" side of the conflict. The Dems had one percentage, the Reps had another. Turns out the Dems did NOT count the Iraqui deaths, and the Reps did. They both had somewhat valid reasons, but it's just irritating that they aren't up-front about how they obtained their figures, and you have to waste valuable time figuring it out.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-19-2004, 04:29 PM | #493 | |
Hobbit
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Quote:
I find all recent elections (not just US, but here in Canada as well) are all about spin. It's like politicians think we are dumber than the last generation, or that we are not worth the facts. That or that politics have become so corrupt that they can't give us a simple basic fact because it will show us what the powers that be have done. What makes me laugh is when both sides (or all the sides in the 4 party system we had last election) use the SAME fact but twist is so grotequely that they can use it each to prove their own, drasticaly different view. |
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10-19-2004, 04:51 PM | #494 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Continuing to work backwards up the thread ...
Quote:
Quote:
and your other 2 questions/comments - Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-19-2004, 09:29 PM | #495 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Valaru nice to see a familiar face (icon?) posting here on the moot. Gives me a bit of an alice in wonderland feeling but in a good way. All my message boards are mating with each other… mixing of the gametes is a good thing though. Makes the place less stale and predictable.
Quote:
Quote:
What I didn’t appreciate was actively going out of my way to point out the limits of the quick one person study done with PLENTY of caveats and then you swooping in using my own caveats against me by saying essentially: “Pssh! ‘one reporter’, ‘arbitrary’, ‘his conclusion’ Bogus!!” when ALL I was trying to do was point something interesting out that I had heard. Not to present it to you on a silver platter so that you could find a way to reject it outright at all costs. which is sure the feeling I got from your particular reply. I wasn’t looking to use it as a weapon. It was just interesting to me that’s all. Thought it might be interesting to others. Been meaning to ask here what are peoples most important issues in regards to how you are voting in this election. By issues I mean Terrorism, Economy/Employment, Iraq, Environment, Deficit, Social Security, Healthcare, Gay Marriage, Education, Taxes, etc., etc. NOT any particular thing about the candidates per se but more specific issues independent of the candidates themselves. So whats it for you that really is important to you? for me it’s a number of things (healthcare, economy/jobs, social security, environment) but honestly I find myself worried most of all about the deficit and to some extent the national debt. It seems to be the issue with the most potential for disaster down the road if we continue to ignore it as we have been. But it seems like you could fit the number of people who care about/understand the deficit issue into one room and still have room left over for a pick up volley ball game. Why is that? Are most people really so unconcerned about this potential economic train wreck that could make life for our kids and grand kids horrific? Or is it just too esoteric and confusing to them? Does the notion that in 40 years ¾ of our tax base could be going to paying interest on the national debt really worth a shrug and a “whatever”? I hope not… But anyway whats yer hot button issues? And all you know nothing ferriners feel free to respond to this as well regarding the issues you think are most important in this election on a global level. Would be interesting to see the differences between citizens and non.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-19-2004, 10:52 PM | #496 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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IRex - I'll just say that it's unfortunate that we seem to misunderstand each other a lot. From our chat on IM, you cleared up for me that it was AFTER the fact that the reporter did his check-up. I read your post as it was a basis for the ABC high-up to issue his memo. I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
But I still view ANY bias by the news, including those towards candidates I favor, as WRONG - just plain WRONG. (and it's not even an issue of "verification of what you thought all along" - it's an issue of a directive by a news director to emphasize one person's distortions over another.) That's all. I hope you can believe that. It's true. I hate unfairness, and I think people should be given the facts straight up, no matter WHAT they favor.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-22-2004, 01:36 PM | #497 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Not meaning to sidetrack you R*an, but what does everyone think of this article?
Quote:
There is also a rebuttle to this article, by Patrick Hynes. The link is located at the end of the first article. I think the second guy writes better, but "Three Reasons Not to Vote for Bush still presents some convincing arguments, especially on the environment. I think Bloom and Hynes both do not present convincing arguments about the economy, or abortion rights (a subject which perhaps should not be broached here because it might be too hot even for this thread.) What do you think about the first article (by Bloom) and the rebuttle (by Hynes)? I found both an interesting read. Incidentally, "ideological and funded by a radical foundations" is not a quote from Bloom's article. Hynes was unclear about that and I had to go back and check. It appears here in Hynes' article. Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 10-22-2004 at 01:45 PM. |
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10-22-2004, 02:50 PM | #498 |
Elf Lord
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Nurvingiel,
I should say those were the correct reasons to vote FOR President Bush's re-election. Not that I wish to deny the few remaining political cartoonists paying work...and Kerry certainly presents a longer face to work with !
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-22-2004, 03:15 PM | #499 | |
Quasi Evil
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Interesting:
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-22-2004, 03:37 PM | #500 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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