Religious Knowledge Thread

[Elfhelm]

Also, Time is a concept that can only exist after language is invented, and some languages don't even HAVE tenses.

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
And speaking of Hell, find out where you belong...

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

uhh oh...8th level...not good


Anyways...for another heated debate...
who do you belive...Religion or Science?

[Elfhelm]

hehehe it properly discovered me as a heretic! LOL! Sixth Circle: The City of Dis.

And I: "My Master, what are all those people
Who, having sepulture within those tombs,
Make themselves audible by doleful sighs?"

And he to me: "Here are the Heresiarchs,
With their disciples of all sects, and much
More than thou thinkest laden are the tombs.

I don't "believe" science. I use it. I also use religion but in my own (heretical) way, not the obedient way I was taught.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

You have escaped damnation and made it to Purgatory, a place where the dew of repentance washes off the stain of sin and girds the spirit with humility. Through contrition, confession, and satisfaction by works of righteousness, you must make your way up the mountain. As the sins are cleansed from your soul, you will be illuminated by the Sun of Divine Grace, and you will join other souls, smiling and happy, upon the summit of this mountain. Before long you will know the joys of Paradise as you ascend to the ethereal realm of Heaven.

Heh. And that's the highest level...

I don't remember the Minotaur having anything to do with ancient Greek afterlife beliefs...did they make that up, or have I just not heard about it?

Also, I would like to point out that Christianity does not teach human sacrifice, as it states that Jesus was Divine. It rather teaches that He (Divine, not human) gave up His life (John 10:17-18 : "17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself") to redeem us.

LFA, I would like to point out that the purpose of this thread was not for debate, but

for people to ask questions about other religions (Questions which are NOT meant to be debasing or offensive in any way) or faith/denomination

Quite simply, it is meant for us to learn about other religions.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Heh. And that's the highest level...

I'm in purgatory too!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

We must be the goody-two-shoes.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
We must be the goody-two-shoes.

Actually I am suprised that I made it there!

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
hehehe it properly discovered me as a heretic! LOL! Sixth Circle: The City of Dis.

Yep, got that as well. Does it count if you clicked the negative box if you don't do something often?

[Millane]

Me too... IM A HERETIC
Im not to fazed about life in hell except for the fact that all the creepy rapists will be there aswell...
umm another question why does Satan get ditched with all the wierdos??? if he only planned to overthrow God why does he have to look after the rapists and such?

7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.

7. hmmm if i were God i would still put people on earth as a way of breaking off the crap and damning everyone bar his superior race instead of having a mix of bad and good.
8. in simple terms he's a prick but im sure someone can explain it so all the hurt falls on religions scapegoat, Satan.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
hehehe it properly discovered me as a heretic! LOL! Sixth Circle: The City of Dis.

Me too. It was quite a surprise. I never knew I was so evil.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Millane
Me too... IM A HERETIC
Im not to fazed about life in hell except for the fact that all the creepy rapists will be there aswell...
umm another question why does Satan get ditched with all the wierdos??? if he only planned to overthrow God why does he have to look after the rapists and such?

7. hmmm if i were God i would still put people on earth as a way of breaking off the crap and damning everyone bar his superior race instead of having a mix of bad and good.
8. in simple terms he's a prick but im sure someone can explain it so all the hurt falls on religions scapegoat, Satan.

Hmm? Sorry, I don't understand. I will say that he does not in fact "look after" them.

7. General revelation, Millane, General revelation.
8. Actually, it is not blamed on Satan. If you had read our replies, rather than jumping immediately to insult our religion, you would have seen that.

Please, this thread is NOT to be used to insult or offend other religions. It is to be used to LEARN about them.

[Elfhelm]

Yeah, but how are we going to learn about Christianity if you, a Christian, say that you don't believe Jesus died for your sins? Because heaping your sins on some other being and being forgiven by his death is called a "sacrifice". And when you do it to a human, it's human sacrifice. Behold the Lamb. With his stripes we are healed, etc. Admit it, you're a Protestant of a small sect that believes you are saved by sheer grace and faith, probably descended from the Anabaptists and journeyed to America to practice their neo-gnostic heresy in peace. And that mean you actually belongs in the City of Dis with the rest of us heretics.

Anyway, the point is that the Gnostics did not buy into this death-of-a-sacrificial-victim-to-purge-sin thing. In fact, it was a belief taken from the Orphic cults and the Gnostic Gospels were removed from the Bible because they did not support this concept, and the Synoptic Gospels were kept because they could be used to support the Orphic cult's takeover of Christianity. You know, Orpheus sacrificed himself by choice, too.

But the point is, the Gnostics did not believe in hidden secrets. They beleived in revealed truths. They did not beleive someone else already "saved" them. They beleived they had to save themselves.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Because heaping your sins on some other being and being forgiven by his death is called a "sacrifice". And when you do it to a human, it's human sacrifice.

I most certainly agree that it was a sacrifice. Christ was the ultimate sacrificial victim. But, what I said was that it was not a HUMAN sacrifice. Christ was Divine, or God, in human form. He wasn't "a human". Also, to me there's a big difference between choosing to give up your life for a cause, and having your life forcefully taken from you for a cause.

Admit it, you're a Protestant of a small sect that believes you are saved by sheer grace and faith, probably descended from the Anabaptists and journeyed to America to practice their neo-gnostic heresy in peace.

Not of any sect; non-denominational. And what sects pratice neo-Gnosticism?

Anyway, the point is that the Gnostics did not buy into this death-of-a-sacrificial-victim-to-purge-sin thing. In fact, it was a belief taken from the Orphic cults and the Gnostic Gospels were removed from the Bible because they did not support this concept, and the Synoptic Gospels were kept because they could be used to support the Orphic cult's takeover of Christianity. You know, Orpheus sacrificed himself by choice, too.

And how do you know the Gnostic Gospels were ever considered true by Christianity, not only by Gnostics?

[Elfhelm]

What do you mean, "ever considered true"? Gnosticism was Christianity. What was fabricated in its place was false prophecy, IMO. Of course, we aren't here to argue, but the very question indicates that you don't realize 1) what the original Christians believed and 2) that the religion was altered from its original form.

I don't think I'm proslytizing in any way. I have a general repugnance for "rote" answers which I think is the mental equivalent of burying your coins. Of course, this thread practically begs for rote answers by its very nature, so I should just give it space.

I personally believe I am expected to think with the brain I was given, and when I think about religion having read beyond what Emperor Constantine's bishops allowed, the result comes out as heresy.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Baby-K
I have a few questions & I hope you guys can help me out:

1. Where did God come from (who made him)?
2. If God has been around forever, then why did he only make earth etc a few million years ago? Is that when time started?
3. What was here before time?
4. Is space really never ending? If not, what's at the end?
5. If aliens do exist, did God make them too?
6. If God made aliens, why didn't he just put them on earth too?
7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.


I have a few more, but will need to think how I want to phrase them. Sorry if this seems daft, guess I never asked these questions when I was a kid

Hmm, ineresting questions...........Let's apply a little Coney logic to them

1. Apparently God made himself.........must be kinda tough for omnipotent beings to find a date or summit :/ Mr and Mrs God snr never got together

2. The designs for the earth were made pretty much immediatly after he created himself..........it was getting planning permission that held up the progress. Time started when God started the "Universe" project........he didn't get paid until he got his back into filling the void.

3. Boredom

4. I think space does have an ending........and I've a horrible feeling that at the end we'll find a wall with "No Trespassers" written on it.

5. Nope, God got tired after the 6th day (Bless Him) he let outside contracters do the other worlds

6. See Above

7. I've got a bit of trouble with this one......if God is all singing-all dancing-omnipotent magnitude.......why in heavens name does he need hands, feet, not to mention a digestive system that only works properly when it's wants to? Does God's appendix have a purpose? 'Cos ours doesn't!............Why do we live on earth instead of in heaven?.........because basically we are Gods little ant farm. (Besides, the angels complain about all the noise we make)

8. Ah, we have to go right back to the Garden of Eden for this one. As we know, God gave Adam and Eve numerous intructions, straight from the creator's mouth.........unfotuneatly they gave God the celestial finger.......and did what they wanted anyway....God, being somewhat exhausted and still wanting some of the money owed for the The Universe contract........had to make a decision, would he watch over us, nuturing us for all eternity (therefore creating his ideal of a perfect world) or did he give us "free will".........leave us to our own destiny and let us kill each other in an ever increasing variety of ways?
If God does have a plan, it's time he picked up the interstellar remote control and flicked back to Channel Earth........'cos I'm pretty sure we ain't following it. (although he did give us the ten commandments..........yer'd think any being capable of creating a universe in six days would've at least carved out a couple of chapters).

There ya have it..........the universe acording to Coney

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
What do you mean, "ever considered true"? Gnosticism was Christianity. What was fabricated in its place was false prophecy, IMO. Of course, we aren't here to argue, but the very question indicates that you don't realize 1) what the original Christians believed and 2) that the religion was altered from its original form.

I don't think I'm proslytizing in any way. I have a general repugnance for "rote" answers which I think is the mental equivalent of burying your coins. Of course, this thread practically begs for rote answers by its very nature, so I should just give it space.

I personally believe I am expected to think with the brain I was given, and when I think about religion having read beyond what Emperor Constantine's bishops allowed, the result comes out as heresy.

Okay, as you pointed out, this thread isn't for debate ( ), but I will just say that the question indicates that I do not believe that the original Church was the same as you believe it was. You have stated that Gnosticism was early Christianity (while I believe that it was actually a sect, offshoot, cult, whatever), but I have seen no evidence to back this claim. Of course, again, this thread is not for debate. I am basically just posting this last reply, and saying that if you are interested, we can continue over PM, or another thread.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Not of any sect; non-denominational. And what sects pratice neo-Gnosticism?

Would that make me "a-sect-ual"? I'm surprised I didn't notice that before...

Interesting account, Coney.

Okay, I have a question for Jews:
markedel, you said that the Kabbalah was in keeping with Orthodox Judaism, correct? How does this line up with the various commandments about practicing magic?

And one for Catholics:
Could you tell me a bit about the Catholic doctrine of Justification?

[markedel]

Kabba;ah isn't magic-it's mysticism. Different stuff altogether.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could be please elaborate a bit? I was doing a bit of research on the Knights Templar having occult practices, and I ran across some pages with a lot of stuff about ritual or ceremonial magic (found out the difference between High and Low Magic there ) and the Kabbalah was mentioned on those pages. I take it that they were in error?

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Coney
Hmm, ineresting questions...........Let's apply a little Coney logic to them

1. Apparently God made himself.........must be kinda tough for omnipotent beings to find a date or summit :/ Mr and Mrs God snr never got together

2. The designs for the earth were made pretty much immediatly after he created himself..........it was getting planning permission that held up the progress. Time started when God started the "Universe" project........he didn't get paid until he got his back into filling the void.

3. Boredom

4. I think space does have an ending........and I've a horrible feeling that at the end we'll find a wall with "No Trespassers" written on it.

5. Nope, God got tired after the 6th day (Bless Him) he let outside contracters do the other worlds

6. See Above

7. I've got a bit of trouble with this one......if God is all singing-all dancing-omnipotent magnitude.......why in heavens name does he need hands, feet, not to mention a digestive system that only works properly when it's wants to? Does God's appendix have a purpose? 'Cos ours doesn't!............Why do we live on earth instead of in heaven?.........because basically we are Gods little ant farm. (Besides, the angels complain about all the noise we make)

8. Ah, we have to go right back to the Garden of Eden for this one. As we know, God gave Adam and Eve numerous intructions, straight from the creator's mouth.........unfotuneatly they gave God the celestial finger.......and did what they wanted anyway....God, being somewhat exhausted and still wanting some of the money owed for the The Universe contract........had to make a decision, would he watch over us, nuturing us for all eternity (therefore creating his ideal of a perfect world) or did he give us "free will".........leave us to our own destiny and let us kill each other in an ever increasing variety of ways?
If God does have a plan, it's time he picked up the interstellar remote control and flicked back to Channel Earth........'cos I'm pretty sure we ain't following it. (although he did give us the ten commandments..........yer'd think any being capable of creating a universe in six days would've at least carved out a couple of chapters).

There ya have it..........the universe acording to Coney

Ta hun, at least this makes sense to me. If ye can, read The Secret Diary of God, sorta along the same lines as yer logic