Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

ALL What about the Library? It is HUGE...It is like in "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco. Did anyone here read this book?
We need a librarian!

Gordis,

I purchased the book recently, but I have not had the chance to begin reading it. There is a great picture of the layout of the abbey at the front and back of the book.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Valandil

OK - a few things:

something in mind to make the sword less talkative in the future - you'll see.
* I don't think the sword will know that the one who was in Val's chamber was the Nazgul named Viv - but I think if the sword is in close proximity with her, it may be able to tell Val that the one who was there is close by. town!
.

Is the sword God? No really, is it omnipotent?

[Earniel]

*mutters darkly* I wish you lot wouldn't post so bleeding fast! That's twice I can change my entire post because every thing has been addressed while I was still typing! Hoom, hasty folk...

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Maggie - Earniel gave me a suggestion how to change my post #470 so you don't have to change yours. I think it works perfectly - see what you think.

There is one little change in order though, Willow. If you'd be so kindly to change "Eärniel" to "RÃ*an" in post #473 than it all fits. It's no longer Eärniel asking to join, RÃ*an does so now.

I repeat that they think the Orrodel inhabitants boorish, but NOT Nazgul!!!!

I can't speak for the rest of the Elves but as far as Eärniel is concerned she might well think it has all been a misunderstanding. She might think Galadannun is justified in being angry that his house is messed up and that his housekeeper was nowhere where she aught to have been at the time. But she'd also think that he's misdirecting that anger because she'd know RÃ*an would never do such a bad job. She may not like his character very much so but it certainly doesn't make him a force of darkness to her.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

well, anyway tis up to Td and rian ... let us hope they may try and pm lotesse and welcome her back rather than just ignore her concerns, which to me is a bit off...


best BB

No, they haven't, but that's fine with me. I've never had a problem with what TD has written, and what Gordis said there a while back about Viv - it's true, Vivvie has tremendous loyalty and even a secret sort-of crush on Khamul and probably always will, to a certain extent, and she'd defend his honour with all she's got if given the chance. You know what I've been dying to do? Write in Viv at that awful Tyaron-insults-Khamul scene, as being in the background witnessing the entire episode, and writing down exactly what she heard the elf say, about "coward" etcetera. I wanted to have her be able to actually understand part of what was being said, and cop[y it down real quick to double-check later with a language specialist just to make sure she got it right. When Khamul et al discover how aggressive and asinine the elves were, how offensive, this will surely bode ill for elves in Tharbad. Elves can die by the boatloads at the hands of just ONE lesser Nazgul, never mind eight. Check your Tolkien canon, folks; it has happened.

Anyway. I am so sick of this crap at this point I really don't know how to express how disgusted I am. I am terribly brusque when it comes to expressing myself, as everyone well knows by now.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Rian , look i do not wish to argue, i enjoy your writing very much, and will just leave it up to you and TD as gor said ... but please do at least consider the repercussions of making them out to be so odd, unlikebale, rude, warlike and generally suspicious .... JUST when a dead body last known to be at their house is fished from the river, drunk ... and as her cousin will testify, she never hardly if ever drinks???

I think that this is ENTIRELY the point. It would seem Rian would like to manipulate the story to her perameters, even manipulate a Nazgul writer, in order to get the story going where SHE wants it, her way. Am I wrong, Rian?

[Earniel]

I think another [EDIT: 24 hour] cool-off period is in order.

[Earniel]

The game and the discussion thread have now been re-opened after a 24-hour padlock.

I closed the thread down yesterday as a preventive measure. This is the first time I did so and it will be the last. It was my belief that the next fight was about to erupt and since I was not able to remain on line much longer to stop it if necessary, I thought it was best to pre-emptively close the thread.

I did so for the sake of the RPG because if it did come to another fight, the game would start haemorrhaging players. A lot of us don’t want to continue if yet another fight starts, so a cool-off period seemed to be the best course for everyone involved.

You don’t have to agree with my reasons for closing the threads but I hope at least you can understand those reasons.

I think it is important for us all to realise that we play this game together and that at some points we have to accept we cannot have this game entirely our own way. Tha's part of the charm or an RPG: to see where somebody else takes the game, and how to bring his/her story together with yours. We all have our different viewpoints on this game and we all have a direction in which we want this game to go.

Naturally there is bound to be some conflict. But we have to respect people’s freedom to direct their own character's actions they way they think fit. I think we can all be reasonable about that and work towards compromises in moments of disputes. Because in my opinion it’s being willing to make compromises and working together that is going to keep this game ultimately alive.

With the cooperation of everyone, this should continue to be an excellent RPG. Without cooperation, it might not even make it into 2006.

And as an after-thought I'd like to add that I think the game has come to a point where both groups, nazgul and non-nazgul, will start to discover some things and figure a few things out on their own. I think this is a necessary part of the game that we cannot do without. So we should take that in account as well. It doesn’t mean that how and when of these events can’t be discussed.

Here you go, let the game continue.

[Rían]

OK, let's rumble!

oh, sorry, wrong place ...

*contrite look*

Well, for anyone that hasn't seen it, I'd like to post this little bit from "The Silmarillion in 1000 words or less" that is relevant to our rpg:

ELVES: Wonder what's going on over the ocean. This crafting deal is pretty sweet, though!
DWARVES: Yeah, seriously.
ANNATAR: Hi, elves! Wanna learn some cool stuff?
ELVES: Okay!
SAURON: They fell for it.
SEVEN DWARVES: Thanks for the rings! . . oooh, GOLD! MUST HAVE GOLD!
NINE MEN: Neat rings. . . Hey, didn't Mom die like six hundred years ago?
CELEBRIMBOR: Okay, how about we do three more and call it a wrap?
SAURON: How about I do one more and claim them ALL?
ELVES: AUGH!
SAURON: Bwa ha ha!
LAST ALLIANCE OF ELVES AND MEN: Push off.
SAURON: Make me.
ISILDUR: Whack.
SAURON: Ow.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Classic!

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

OK, let's rumble!

oh, sorry, wrong place ...

*contrite look*

Well, for anyone that hasn't seen it, I'd like to post this little bit from "The Silmarillion in 1000 words or less" that is relevant to our rpg:

ELVES: Wonder what's going on over the ocean. This crafting deal is pretty sweet, though!
DWARVES: Yeah, seriously.
ANNATAR: Hi, elves! Wanna learn some cool stuff?
ELVES: Okay!
SAURON: They fell for it.
SEVEN DWARVES: Thanks for the rings! . . oooh, GOLD! MUST HAVE GOLD!
NINE MEN: Neat rings. . . Hey, didn't Mom die like six hundred years ago?
CELEBRIMBOR: Okay, how about we do three more and call it a wrap?
SAURON: How about I do one more and claim them ALL?
ELVES: AUGH!
SAURON: Bwa ha ha!
LAST ALLIANCE OF ELVES AND MEN: Push off.
SAURON: Make me.
ISILDUR: Whack.
SAURON: Ow.

[Rían]

(Hi Gwai! )

[Butterbeer]

Rian, could i ask you to edit line 11?

SAURON: Bwa ha ha!

... only kidding!


well said Earniel.

guess we should just let people write what they want mostly and see where it takes us ..bring the fun back into it .. maybe the odd new twist ...

*thinks of someone*

well i shjall not get involved in any more debates that look like they are going to go pear shaped ...

best all, BB

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

(Hi Gwai! )

(Hi Ri! ) How go things in Southern Californee?

[Gordis]

Hi, All!
Cooling off was a good idea, Earniel, may be quite OK as a preventive measure in the future. May I suggest next time to use an 18 hours cooling period, not 24. Like that, people will have time to cool off, but still will have most of the next evening to play. Now it is sooo late...

BB, will you post Boom reporting to the Chancellor?

TD, I am sorry if I was harsh yesterday. I firmly believe you have the right to play Khamul as you see fit. The ML will not be too wrathful after having cooled off like that.

So let us continue?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Rian, could i ask you to edit line 11?

You goofball! *gives BB an affectionate noogie*


PEOPLE - I have made extensive edits in three of my posts on the last page, taking out quite a lot of things. So has TD. I hope this will help things out. Please let me know.

And I'd like to repeat my request about Gondolic, the ancient dialect of Gondolin - since we've granted that you Nazgul can communicate via thought and we can't hear you, is it ok with everyone that only Rian, Earniel, Alagos and Tyaron understand Gondolic? (plus Mahtaliel, another elf, knows a little of it - she is also an ancient elf.) I believe Gordis has already agreed to this; how about everyone else?


EDIT - jes' fine here, Gwai!

[Butterbeer]

well i have no idea what a noogie is .... but it sounds good

TD, i second what Gor said ..sorry if i was a bit harsh ..er today!

yeah ok Rian gondollin lingo, thingo.

...er hello Gwaimir Windgem! this is not a chat thread it is for arguing ...er. i mean discussing ... just kidding again!

yeah gor i may have lost me post, though possibly not, but ill do it tommorow, think i have some of it though ... but early doors ... i'll see if i have that and post it ... such as it is, as yet

wheres the race shah? .. looking forward to it!

well im off to bed in a mo ...

actually i blame Gw .... wheres our good doc when the chill pills are needed?

blimey ive had a tough old day ...






thanks for editing rian ...

thats a good idea about the 18 hr thing ..though i suppose it depends what time it gets closed?

but yes, the coolong off period was a good idea ...

[Udukhaturz]

Everyone,

There is really no need for the Elves to have a Gondolin dialect that only they can understand, unless you just want it for a plot device. Really, no one can understand private thought conversations if the “subject� is exercising “unwill.� See below.

Here are excerpts from Ósanwe-kenta by J. R. R. Tolkien:

“A mind by its nature perceives another mind directly. But it cannot perceive more than the existence of another mind (as something other than itself, though of the same order) except by the will of both parties (Note 1). The degree of will, however, need not be the same in both parties. If we call one mind G (for guest or comer) and the other H (for host or receiver), then G must have full intention to inspect H or to inform it. But knowledge may be gained or imparted by G, even when H is not seeking or intending_[6]_ to impart or to learn: the act of G will be effective, if H is simply "open" (láta; látie "openness"). This distinction, he says, is of the greatest importance.
"Openness" is the natural or simple state (indo) of a mind that is not otherwise engaged (_Note 2_). In "Arda Unmarred" (that is, in ideal conditions free from evil)_[7]_ openness would be the normal state. Nonetheless any mind may be closed (pahta). This requires an act of conscious will: Unwill (avanir). It may be made against G, against G and some others, or be a total retreat into "privacy" (aquapahtie).�
Though in "Arda Unmarred" openness is the normal state, every mind has, from its first making as an individual, the right to close; and it has absolute power to make this effective by will. Nothing can penetrate the barrier of Unwill (_Note 3_).�

“Of [Men] Pengolodh says only: ‘Men have the same faculty as the Quendi, but it is in itself weaker, and is weaker in operation owing to the strength of the hröa, over which most men have small control by the will’.�

Note: "hröa" refers to the body while "fëa" refers to the spirit or soul.

However, as often the case with Tolkien’s writing, he breaks some of his own rules. The Ringwraiths are a case in point, ie, when wearing their Rings, Sauron can read every thought. Black Shadow might also breach these rules, since that seems to have some influence upon thinking, such as nightmares.

This information is offered to be of assistance to all and hopefully to avoid disputations.

[Gordis]

I have read the posts edited by Rian and LMM . Indeed it is much better now. Thank you.
But still I found some more things, please bear with me.

Rian #461 Please don’t call Khamul "The Captain". Ii is the Morgul Lord’s title. Khamul is but a Lieutenant.

"servants going missing," We spoke about it already, but still I feel that Khamul will never say anything that could be turned against him later, when the murder is discovered. He knows that it will be, so he will never say such an ambiguous thing even about Rian’s absence.

Please either take it away or change to "The housekeeper missing".


Now about timing.

LMM #462 "who stay up all hours of the night carousing and making much noise"

Rian #471 "My brother saw lights and heard noises late into the night last night."

I remember discussing it with LMM, and we came to the conclusion that the ML+Tol+Aiwendis left the University at 1AM and came to Orrodel around a quarter past 1AM. After they came, all the noises stopped. Not later than 1.30 they moved to a secret room facing the court and with very heavy drapes. There was no electricity in ME, so no light could be seen from the street and hardly any from the court.
So any suspicious activity ended at 1.30AM. Could it be called "all hours of the night?" or "late into the night?".
It is exactly this time now, while I am sitting here and typing…

[Butterbeer]

can you see any wierd lights?

ah c'mon now lets just leave it and move on ....

interesting stuff UDU

but as they are from gondollin it figures they speak the lingo thingo ...

well im off to bed ...

beware Shah of jd syndrome ..the longer we await the great race ..the more pressure on you to make it awe-inspiring!


*oops just accidently sat on the pressure-cranker-upper button*

night all!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Everyone,

There is really no need for the Elves to have a Gondolin dialect that only they can understand, unless you just want it for a plot device. Really, no one can understand private thought conversations if the “subject� is exercising “unwill.� See below.

Here are excerpts from Ósanwe-kenta by J. R. R. Tolkien: ...

Thank you very much, Udu! and thank you for the link you gave me where I can (hopefully) get a copy of this

The reason I am asking for the Gondolic language thing is that I doubt that it would be granted by most people that the elves could speak in thought language to each other. From what I understand, we're only granting that to the Nazgul and to Valandil and some of his people. But maybe I'm wrong.

SO - should the elves be able to do this, too, as Udu brings up? And as JRRT says, they should be even better at it than men. Thoughts?


Gordis - sorry, I got mixed up with the titles. I'll go change it to Lieutenant I'll also make a slight edit to the "lights" comment. However, TD was happy with the rest of my post and how I wrote for Khamul, so I'll leave it unless he wants me to change it.

[Rían]

One more quick thing, people - PLEASE remember to keep separate from your character We have some "evil" characters here, doing some bad things. If an rpg-character says something bad about another rpg-character, it is ONLY how the writer thinks that particular rpg-character would react in that particular rpg circumstance to that particular rpg-character. It is NOT anything against the real person behind the rpg-character at ALL!

I'm off to get the kids now - I hope to see the race soon