08-08-2003, 11:38 PM | #461 |
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Thanks! :)
Thanks, everyone, for your patience. I’m sorry it took so long – the 2nd law of thermodynamics often operates too much in my life for me to post any faster, as I have some health issues that slow me down in addition to 3 active kids to take care of!
I’m more than willing to discuss these posts with anyone that’s interested, as long as they are willing to be considerate and polite, as well as scientific and logical, and if they don’t mind that it will take a long time to get through the questions, as they involve some complex issues. Also, I like to have at least some time to post on the Tolkien threads, as I really love his works! As I’ve said before, I’m SO glad I discovered Entmoot and all the thoughtful and intelligent people that post here, and I sure hope I can meet some of you some day and sit down for a non-typed chat! Please let me know if you’re ever in California. THE END - you may start your comments!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-09-2003, 12:03 AM | #462 |
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Hi Rian!
In regards to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, entropy decreases can occur spontaneously, if enough energy is available. And since the Earth is not a closed system, (enegy comes from the Sun), then I don't see how this can be used against evolution. And also re: mutations, I know this has been mentioned, but people with sickle-shaped blood cells are less likely to get malaria. And what about people with immunitity to HIV because of a mutant allele or antibiotic resistance to bacteria? Is this not obeservable evidence?
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08-09-2003, 12:31 AM | #463 | ||||
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 1)
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08-09-2003, 12:35 AM | #464 |
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snails and sponges did not magically appear in the world, sorry rian.
they evolved from weaker things too. it is pretty hard for fossils to form, especially in the water. if there is no fossil it didn't exist? ooooookaaay.
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08-09-2003, 01:03 AM | #465 | |||||||
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 2)
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Wouldn't this be something you *would* find under the ToC/great flood model? Certainly it is not predicted anywhere else. Quote:
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A small relative change in sea level can account for this. It fits the theory just fine. Quote:
A paraconformity has nothing to do with the order of fossils. It is strictly a sedimentary structural description. A gap in depositon of fossils just might mean the creatures weren't there.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 08-09-2003 at 01:36 AM. |
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08-09-2003, 01:35 AM | #466 |
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Re: Evidence area 2 - The Nature of Change (part 1)
I'm not going to bother with a point by point refutation of this "changes" post. Simple examples like this... (...and whales came from big dogs...) occur time and time again. Fossils are observable evidence( and repeatable if one continues to look for them where one expects to find them). If one of the most complex mammals can undergo such a dramatic change in a fraction of the time of the geologic record, why is it so hard to perceive the "mind-boggling" possibilities of what could happen with simpler creatures over the period of a billion years?
Many examples of positive genetic mutation, however small, have been given, so that arguement fails as well. One small step means a million small steps are possible, given time. Oservation, eh? Have you seen a meteor? Little ones, right? Have you seen a meteor the size of Mt. Everest? No. But the dinosaurs did. Does the fact that the scale is bigger and the time interval longer mean it doesn't happen? No.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
08-09-2003, 02:05 AM | #467 | |||
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Re: Evidence area 3 - Similarity in Structure
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It seems this designers' success is very... RANDOM! Quote:
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Full text on why "chicken lysozyme theory" is nonsense.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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08-09-2003, 02:10 AM | #468 |
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Interesting article on the evolution of hemoglobin.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
08-09-2003, 02:00 PM | #469 | ||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-09-2003 at 02:02 PM. |
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08-09-2003, 02:07 PM | #470 | ||
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Re: Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 1)
I'll just comment on a few here ...
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*goes back and checks* Yes, it's clearly stated in both the opening statement and the closing statement on the subject that the Cambrian is the lowest abundant fossil-bearing layer. Didn't you notice this? If so, could you at least have given me the benefit of the doubt, or pointed out my omission in that one single area, instead of quoting it and saying it's incorrect? I hope you guys will allow me at least a few slip-ups of this nature, considering how much I typed in. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-09-2003 at 02:16 PM. |
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08-09-2003, 02:25 PM | #471 | ||||
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Also, if snails are found in one layer, then all their ancestors can't be in the same layer, can they? Quote:
People - Please remember that I'm NOT saying evolutionism is proven to be wrong! I'm saying that I think neither one may be proven, and the existing observable evidence supports creationism better, IMO. And please read my posts carefully without assuming I believe things that you THINK I believe. Thanks
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-09-2003 at 02:27 PM. |
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08-09-2003, 02:47 PM | #472 | |
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Re: Re: Evidence area 2 - The Nature of Change (part 1)
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Wasn't it Gould's opinion, at least at one point, that evollution couldn't happen by single-step mutations anymore, but rather whole sets of DNA had to change at once?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-10-2003, 02:35 AM | #473 | |
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08-11-2003, 10:50 AM | #474 | ||||
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 1)
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08-11-2003, 12:06 PM | #475 |
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The YEC model of the fossil record should show
a) no gradation in time- all organisms which have existed on Earth were alive at the same time, therefore there should be no distinct stratigraphic layers corresponding to time-zones. The terms Cambrian, Silurian, Pliocene etc. are mislabelling of different environments which existed contemporaneously. This gives rise to some problems when marine fossils, wet-climate fossils, arid-zone fossils, ice age fossils etc are all found in the same area- the climate must have varied from ocean to desert to swamp to ocean to steppe all in a few hundred years with totally different eco-systems replacing each other without any mixing- i.e. no dry-land mammals with dry-land dinosaurs. Since fossil layers simply reflect ecological zones, they should be found in any order- if we find an apatosaurus, we have equal chances of finding a hippo above it or below it. Life in deeper layers of the fossil record should not vary from life in more shallow layers - there should be no increase in difference- fossils from the Jurassic shoukd be the same as fossils from the modern era, if they are from the same environment. A quick glance at the actual fossil record gives the YEC model a grade of zero- it totally fails to correspond with the rocks.
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08-11-2003, 12:20 PM | #476 |
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Not to mention:
The extremely large population of species alive simultaneously. The lack of mega-faunal fossils prior to the flood. The diversity of "types" through the column would have "micro-evolution" occuring at phenominal rates. This assumes a similar "floatation" within types. Fish, marine organisms and aquatic air breathers should not have drowned during the flood. The impossibility of forming shallow water carbonate structures such as ooids in a deep marine environment. The difficulty explaining the prepoderance of shallow water and terrestrial strata. As if several gaping hoes weren't enough.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
08-11-2003, 12:43 PM | #477 | ||||
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 1)
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You could try Google for "preCambrian fossils" . An analogy: the model-T Ford is the first automobile of which we have abundant antiques, because it is the first automobile produced in abundant numbers; therefore we can ignore earlier autombiles and pretend Henry Ford produced it totally out of the blue. Quote:
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from a guy who will tell you more about trilobites than you ever want to know Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 08-11-2003 at 12:44 PM. |
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08-11-2003, 01:10 PM | #478 | ||||
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 2)
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Wrong. Quote:
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(Actually, this brought back romantic memories of sitting with my girlfriend on a houseboat on the river in Srinagar, Kashmir, guessing what kind of bloated animal -donkey, goat, cow- would be the next to float past) How long did the survivors from the Titanic float? And why would the bones of proto-camels, shoveled-tooth mastodons and titanotheres (all mammals) sink faster than modern camels, elephants and rhinos? Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-11-2003, 01:30 PM | #479 | |
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Re: Evidence area 1 - Fossil Evidence (part 2)
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(Unless of course you believe in the Paluxy man-tracks)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-11-2003, 02:59 PM | #480 |
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ouch
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |