05-10-2006, 02:09 PM | #461 | |||||
Quasi Evil
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Youll note im NOT referring to the First Amendment there if that’s what you were worried about. So isn’t necessarily the fact that your using the bible as your basis for discriminating unjustly against others (since your ultimate rational for this is because it is mentioned in the bible) but that you are simply unjustly discriminating against certain people thus restricting them of their rightful “privileges”, their rightful “liberties” and the “equal protection” laid out above. If you were atheist and saying gays shouldn’t marry because you felt it was harmful to them you would be as guilty of restricting those items as a religious Christian is. The argument either way is ban it because I think it causes harm even though I cant prove it and even though harm is no reason to suppress liberties (and freedom of expression by the way).
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 05-10-2006 at 02:11 PM. |
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05-10-2006, 02:49 PM | #462 |
Elf Lord
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Gaffer,
Your definition of fascism is a bit off: "But that's not what makes it fascism-lite. Fascism is, if you like, the tyranny of the majority, where people in certain minority groups are forced to conform to a norm." fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm) n. often Fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. Oppressive, dictatorial control. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- fas·cistic (f-shstk) adj. Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, “bundle, (political) group,” but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism. [Download Now or Buy the Book] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fascism n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism) I had rather gathered you were old enough to know better by experience or exposure to those who did know better. It is erroneous to define it as you do.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-10-2006, 08:48 PM | #463 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Only time for one -
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-10-2006 at 08:49 PM. |
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05-10-2006, 08:50 PM | #464 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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05-10-2006, 10:56 PM | #465 |
of the House of FĂ«anor
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Post Edited out: off topic, flame inciting/baiting. Please only post in this topic if you have something positive to add to this discussion.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
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05-11-2006, 12:49 AM | #466 | |
Entmoot's Drunken Uncle
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I just felt like pointing out (mostly for my own amusement) that I am currently in a relationship with one guy (sexual and nostalgic), one girl (emotionally wonderful), and also courting one of her friends (purely sexual). Insert segue here. It is possible to be emotionally attracted to one gender but be sexually attracted to the other instead of just being fully attracted to one gender. Insert segue here. And all women are a bit bisexual just because women are so pretty that EVERYONE looks at them, not just guys. Whatever created women in Her image, the female body is a beautiful thing that turns heads when used properly. |
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05-11-2006, 12:53 AM | #467 | |
of the House of FĂ«anor
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 05-11-2006 at 12:55 AM. |
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05-11-2006, 01:56 AM | #468 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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The male body rocks, too! But in a different way. I think the female body is more "artistically" beautiful. But I don't think one has to be "bisexual" to think this.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-11-2006 at 01:59 AM. |
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05-11-2006, 04:31 AM | #469 | |
Elf Lord
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As ever, Lotsy has hit the nail on the head.
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Consider for a moment what it would be like to live in a fascist state. Basically, everything is OK as long as you conform to the accepted racial/national/social definition. Since it's only minorities who don't, then it's possible to get away with it by exploiting existing prejudices. Now, I think we are a long way from this, but there are signs of it. One of the steps down that particular slippery slope is the argument that opposing a war or questioning policy is unpatriotic. Another, IMO, is creating definitions for things like marriage. Consider the huge amount of effort that went into defining Aryan racial characteristics. Hence the phrase "fascism lite". While I believe that defining marriage as being between a man and a woman can be considered a symptom of fascism lite, it is a fairly minor element compared with the sort of arguments we routinely see from state sources in the political sphere. (Things like: it's unpatriotic to point out that the Iraq war is a total disaster, or how the war on terror/drugs/communism/insert-current-bugbear has been stoked up to enable the state to justify itself without recourse to logic or reason. A key tactic for the fascist lite state.) Having said that it's "fairly minor" (in the path-to-fascism scheme of things), that is not to understate the damage it would cause to millions of individuals. It would also enshrine prejudice in a way that would legitimise some rather nasty views about gays which I am sure are not shared by people here, but which exist in the wider world. |
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05-11-2006, 09:46 AM | #470 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/076.html
Here is a study of the six fascist regimes and what constitutes their shared characteristics. Since the last three letters of the word are -ist or -ism it is an idea, and does not only refer to the Italian Party of the same name. Singling out one internal group as "harmful" certainly does fit the pattern. I provide this particular link because it contains both points of view. Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-11-2006 at 09:48 AM. |
05-11-2006, 10:17 AM | #471 |
Elf Lord
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Elfhelm
Good resource. I think it supports my contention that fascism was a malapropism as used by TG. The only correlation he makes is the allegation that refusing marriage to G/L/B/T is sufficient to support a designation of fascism lite. Rather strained and overblown, that.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-11-2006, 10:20 AM | #472 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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05-11-2006, 11:22 AM | #473 |
Elf Lord
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Well, the rhetorical point was based on the idea of conformity to the majority's definition of acceptable relationships/citizenry/whatever.
And don't get me started, there are endless examples of fascism-lite to be had in recent political events. Looking at Elfhelm's link (thanks for that, very interesting), I don't see any items where there isn't a litany of erosions to be cited from recent years. No. I don't know anyone on this or any other thread who stated that Christians should be prevented from practising their religion. However, I am a fascist about spelling and punctuation... * eats shoots and leaves * Last edited by The Gaffer : 05-11-2006 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Also fascist about leaving sentences incomplete |
05-11-2006, 11:40 AM | #474 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Edit: Here is the article by Umberto Eco to which the critic of the previous article refers. In here Eco even specifically states that intolerance of homosexuality is among the fascist tactics. http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-11-2006 at 12:30 PM. |
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05-11-2006, 01:23 PM | #475 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-11-2006, 01:51 PM | #476 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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05-11-2006, 02:58 PM | #477 | |||
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Fascism can only be practiced by governments, I thought. Gay is another natural type of love! <- just thought I'd put something on topic in here.
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05-11-2006, 05:58 PM | #478 |
Elf Lord
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Nurv,
1) I don't know, haven't read it! 2) An astute observation! 3) It is against nature! It's "natural" result is termination of the species. Oh, well, 1 out of three, that's about the usual for our agreement.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-11-2006, 06:38 PM | #479 | |
of the House of FĂ«anor
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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05-11-2006, 07:47 PM | #480 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm not inconsistent - you apparently thought (WRONGLY!) that I thought everything I thought was wrong should be legislated against!?! Nope. When I consider how to vote, I consider several aspects. First, obviously, whether I think the thing is right or wrong. Also I consider the enforceability of the thing, and the benefits versus the costs. That's just off the top of my head - there might be more things to consider for different issues.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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