09-28-2006, 09:55 PM | #461 |
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One of the tricky things is that even if we became completely independent from Venezuela's oil, globalization would be such that if Iran and Venezuela closed their oil resources from the rest of the world, global oil prices would skyrocket and thus they would in the US too, even if we didn't get much at all of our oil from Venezuela.
So we really need to find a way to get off of oil completely, but such a technology or alternative resource would take decades to implement.
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09-28-2006, 10:06 PM | #462 |
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Indeed, and even though Ethanol has worked for Brazil I keep hearing that it won't for us, for some strange reason...
ANWR supposedly didn't have that much oil, but recently I heard that there is an enourmous amount there. Chavez by himself coudln't cut his oil off from us without his own economy plummeting...but seeing there might be a special deal between him and Ahmadinejad, I can see how they might try to strangle us...
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09-28-2006, 10:52 PM | #463 |
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If we attack Iran, I expect that they would.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
09-28-2006, 10:58 PM | #464 | ||
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Lief, I can email you the PDF file. The links will only work if you access them from my university's computers. PM me your address if you want.
This could be any religion, but here we're talking about Islam. What makes a religion violent (or not violent)? Can an abstract concept such as religion be violent, or does it condone violence? If a religion is violent (or not violent), what is gained by knowing this? Personally, I try to judge people only by their actions. That's why I've taken the Muslims' "side" in this thread. I don't find generalizations very useful in this situation. Lastly, if we decide that Islam is violent, well, what are we going to do? I think we should try to build positive relationships so that people reject acts of violence condoned by religion.
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09-29-2006, 12:29 AM | #465 | ||||||||
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The Muslim religion is violent too, as its texts call for violence. We can also see that it is violent because that is how Muhammad and his earliest supporters interpreted it. The way I judge religions is by looking at what the texts say and then at how their earliest supporters interpreted them. That shows how it is supposed to be interpreted and what its nature is. Unless the religion is supposed to be one of those that evolves with time, in which case it's a rather different matter. Quote:
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Increasing awareness of the danger of the enemy we face is essential to defeating them. Otherwise we'll be lured into the belief that this is another Vietnam, a mere civil war that we're bogged down in and which we can pull out of without harming our long-term security to a terrible extent. I think that the Dominoe Theory was incorrect as regards Vietnam, (hindsight) but is probably much more likely to be valid as regards Iraq. Again, that view has recently been confirmed in a US intelligence report released by 16 intelligence agencies. We should praise the strengths of Islam that are positive, and warn our people about its strengths that are negative. I realize that to fully alert the public as to the nature of the threat we face is partly to expand that threat also, for it would increase the rift between civilizations. For if Westerners believe that Islam is violent, it is more likely that the public will do stupid things to antagonize Muslims. And a significant number of Muslims never will become terrorists or extremists! But at the same time, I fear that our society is critically weakened by looking back at Vietnam and failing to understand the terrible danger face by viewing the situations as identical. Understanding the nature of Islam would strengthen our society to deal with the threat as it is. Thus understanding is important for the long-term, and keeping our people from understanding will give the jihadis successes in the Middle East. As for myself, I don't believe the public will become aware. I fear that in 2008 we'll elect somebody who pulls us out of Iraq too fast, and probably submits in Afghanistan too. Then the extremists will win victories in both countries, their numbers will multiply at obscene rates and countries in the Middle East will spin out of control as all those jihadis begin attacking other moderate governments in the region. I fear that Israel will also be destroyed.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-29-2006 at 12:31 AM. |
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09-29-2006, 01:41 AM | #466 | ||||||||||||||||
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We are helping affect positive change in Afghanistan. (Though, it would be awesome if the American Air Force would stop shooting at us, cheers.) Girls are in school right now in Afghanistan and there is elected government in power. The Taliban would send this wonderful country back to the Middle-ages in human rights, and they attack Afghani civilians. Only a few days ago Safia Ama Jan was assassinated. We need to stay and help Afghanistan to rebuild. But why would thinking of Islam as violent help this? Was Safia Ama Jan violent? Quote:
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Also, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are dangerous because they are armed, desperate, and have no compunction about using civilians as shields in their attempt to submit the world to a fundamentalist regime. That the fundamentalist regime would be a Muslim one is really not the danger here. Quote:
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I'm not sure why you're comparing Afghanistan and Vietnam. The two situations are very, very different. Quote:
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09-29-2006, 03:21 AM | #467 | |||||||||||||||
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As for the evolved version of Islam, I have no problem with that. When people interpret jihad spiritually, I have no problem with them. That's great, and actually, it turns out, completely in line with Christian views about the struggle against sin. I'm a fundamentalist, so I don't agree with Muslim liberalism. If I was a Muslim, I'd be a fundamentalist Muslim, because to me, liberalism just means you make up your own religion. So I think that fundamentalist Islam makes more sense than liberal Islam, personally. But that's completely irrelevant. The bottom line (as far as I'm concerned) is that when Muslims are liberals, they are not a threat to our society. They have peaceful beliefs with which they can mesh pretty well with modern society. That is why we need to support the liberal Muslims. But many, many Muslims are not liberals. For them, Islam has not evolved. There are also large numbers of Muslims that believe in violent jihad, but aren't fighting the West. Many who believe in violent jihad are very angry with Al'Qaeda nonetheless, because Al'Qaeda is using many immoral methods to engage in warfare that they don't approve of. Hezbollah, for example, certainly believes in violent jihad. Yet they have condemned Al'Qaeda's attacks on the World Trade Center because, according to them, it involved killing innocent civilians. So Al'Qaeda has made many mainstream Muslims angry at it because of the methods it uses, more than anything else. Quote:
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I'm glad we can agree on Afghanistan and Iraq. Quote:
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The American people, and the people of England, want their people out of Iraq. There is a majority in both countries that want a withdrawal. However, according to the Islam, God will give victories to his faithful jihadis. Thus victories in battle (especially against great military powers like the US or Israel) prove to many Muslims that the cause was just in Allah's eyes. Thus the religion is an enemy, and giving in in Iraq would bring Al'Qaeda and all the radicals a great boost in popularity. People would join to them. Sixteen US intelligence groups have all agreed, after careful consideration of the situation in Iraq, that if we pull out, radicalism will be strongly reinforced as a consequence. That's the strong new evidence that just came up, backing what I'm telling you. The US people don't understand this. They think Iraq is like Vietnam. To many people in the US, we are bogged down in a civil war that will not quit but will only intensify, so we are just going to lose men in a hopeless fight. But I believe that we must stick the fight out in spite of the losses, because otherwise Al'Qaeda would win a great victory not only over a highly valuable oil region, but over the minds of fellow Muslims. We can't afford to let that happen. If we pull out of Iraq, many Muslims will believe that Allah gave Al'Qaeda victory. This is what the American public doesn't understand. If the jihadis believe God has given them a victory in Iraq, they will be even more convinced he favors them and they will gain many more recruits. Then they will simply change their focus. They will move on to focus instead on other countries nearby. Saudi Arabia knows this. That is why, out of fear that jihadis might start coming out of Iraq to fight Saudi Arabia, they have begun to construct a fence, a long defense barrier between them and Iraq's north, not to keep jihadis from crossing their border into Iraq, but rather to keep them from launching attacks from Iraq into THEIR country. In Afghanistan too, we need to understand the nature of the religion. This is because again, our enemies there are powered by the motivation of religion and as a consequence they will be very, very difficult to beat. The fact that they are protecting the country's opium economy also bodes very bad for us. But again, if we end up pulling out of Afghanistan because we are unwilling to accept any more casualties, Allah will be seen as having favored Al'Qaeda and the Taliban. The religion also is part of what drives the enemy to attack us. Even if Israel was no more and the West had no more troops anywhere near the Middle East, they would still come for us. This is because of Muhammad's teachings in the Qur'an and the Hadith. They believe Allah is on their side, and IMO, he is. Obviously I don't see him as the Christian God . I have here emphasized one factor in the struggle: the religion. The religion is not the only factor, to be sure. There are many factors involved in this struggle, including politics and economics, etc. But the public needs to know about the religious factor and what its nature is, or they will misjudge their enemies and misunderstand them, and consequently will make the worst decisions they can make for their own security. I fear for Israel partly because of the proliferation of WMDs in the world. Israel has built a big wall cutting themselves off from the Palestinians, and have enacted embargos on the Palestinians that keep them from working on their land. Thus, even though there still is a significant number of Palestinians in Israel, Israel has sealed its Jews in and sealed large numbers of Muslims out. That may temporarily be helping Israel against terrorism, but it makes them a ripe target for a nuclear bomb. All of those Israelis are united on one small patch of land, in a close bunch all together. One bomb could destroy the country. And it doesn't even have to be Iran, though Iran certainly is a grave threat to Israel. I personally am afraid of what North Korea may choose to do with its nuclear arsenal. They might sell one to Al'Qaeda or the black market.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-29-2006 at 04:00 AM. |
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09-29-2006, 04:11 AM | #468 | |||||||||
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Okay, I'm having a bit of a go at some of the stuff in the Old Testament. However, I did that also to say, that Christianity has evolved, a lot. Of course, I'm one of those loose-moralled liberal Anglicans so I know we don't see eye-to-eye on this, but I would assert that many changes to Christianity over the years have been positive. Quote:
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Since you did mention it's not relevant, I'll only add a small comment about fundamentalism. The way I see it, fundamentalism is where you interpret religious teachings literally. This is not necessarily correct or in line with what God wants of us. Quote:
If Hezbollah says Al'Qaeda's methods are reprehensible, I have no problem agreeing with them on this. Does it really matter why we agree, so long as most people renounce Al'Qaeda? Quote:
The rest of your post I'm going to have to leave for tomorrow, as it is one o'clock in the morning.
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09-29-2006, 05:09 AM | #469 |
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I'll respond when you've finished .
It's getting really late for me to be up too.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
09-29-2006, 08:10 AM | #470 | |
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T.E. Lawrence: Yes, you were great. Prince Feisal: Nine centuries ago. T.E. Lawrence: Time to be great again, my lord.
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09-29-2006, 11:46 AM | #471 | |
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09-29-2006, 01:17 PM | #472 |
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..EVOLVE...????!!!! They've had freekin centuries to do that, same as Jews and Christians.................#@$!#$!$!#@$!#~
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09-29-2006, 07:14 PM | #473 |
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They've had six less centuries than Christianity, and a helluva lot less time than Judaism, in all fairness.
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09-29-2006, 09:14 PM | #474 | |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5393892.stm
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It is rather worrisome.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-30-2006, 12:06 PM | #475 |
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Yeah, Lief, even Jon Stewart-this week-interviewed Musharif and served him jasmine tea-went out of his way to make the point by saying "I've made you tea, does this offend you"...."it's jasmine tea does this offend you"....."do you like this brand, does it offend you"......
You can't give up who you are....you just have to be more vigilant. OH, and *centuries* are enough to change-remember Muhammed wasn't a 17th century person!! These radical are still spouting and fighting medievil ideas.
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10-01-2006, 09:00 PM | #476 | ||
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I love Jon Stewart so very much. Does my asking if this offends you offend you? He should have said that too. How did the other guy respond?
Don't worry Lief, you'd join great people like Salman Rusdie!
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10-01-2006, 10:53 PM | #477 | |||
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By "evolve with time" I meant change or adapt to new ideas. For an example of what I mean, I will turn to the Bible for an example. Leviticus 19:19, King James Version Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee. Now, do we Christians regard someone who wears a suit of wool and linen to be going against the Bible? No, because that's stupid. If someone plants a garden of wildflowers from a mixed seed packet do we burn their house in retribution? Definitely not, because again: stupid. Here's an example of something that has evolved over time. When Leviticus wrote this verse, people probably did practice what he had to say here. This is no longer the case (people can if they want, but it is no longer widespread). I shudder to think what Christianity (and Judaism, since this verse is in the Torah too) would be like if they had not evolved over time. EDIT: Just to point out that Leviticus isn't completely full of crap, some of the good stuff: Leviticus 19:11, King James Version Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. EDIT 2: People (at least some, probably a lot) do take Leviticus seriously. See? My fiance would like to point out that the author makes a couple good points about textiles, but blending wool and mohair, for example, will generally make a suit lighter and have a softer hand. A light-weight suit of that nature, blended or otherwise, will not last as long as, say, a Harris tweed. His point is that, it doesn't matter what the textile is made of, but that it was made to be lightweight and breatheable, as opposed to heavy, stuffy, but durable. The blend of material, related to the life of the textile, is irrelevant.
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 10-01-2006 at 11:07 PM. |
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10-02-2006, 12:13 AM | #478 | |
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10-02-2006, 12:22 AM | #479 |
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Nurv; I went to the link, and was surprised to find that they seemed to not acknowledge the abrogation of the Old Law. I started to suspect something fishy. I continued looking at the site (after first clicking the link at the bottom of your article, naturally ), and found an article about how Sunday worship is unjustified. This confirmed my suspicions; this is a Seventh-Day Adventist website; they are some of/the only Christians to believe that the Old Testament Law is mandatory for Christians.
Pay them no heed.
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10-02-2006, 07:43 AM | #480 | |
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