Iraq - Page 24

***Khamûl*** · 10-31-2002, 11:34 PM

Make me the third person that thinks this debate is going nowhere. There is really nothing to debate that hasn't already been run into the ground. It's inevitable that these things always end up blaming America. Why don't we just let this thing rest?

jerseydevil · 10-31-2002, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
nothing there even worth replying to

A hole only grows as you dig it

yeah I know - and Europe has dug it pretty deep. Now America has to try fixing the mess left in the Middle East - while at the same time putting up with ignorant statements that everything is America's fault.

Coney · 10-31-2002, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
yeah I know - and Europe has dug it pretty deep. Now America has to try fixing the mess left in the Middle East - while at the same time putting up with ignorant statements that everything is America's fault.

*shakes head*................do you REALLY believe that?

Propaganda in real action

Khamul why do you believe this is more centrally aimed agaisnt America.............surely not because that is the general jist of the thread

...... and the thread only supports the opinions of the memebers? right? and the it is an international membership?

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
*shakes head*................do you REALLY believe that?

Propaganda in real action

Actually if you look at the history of the Middle East and Africa - you will find that most of these countries were arbitrarily created by England and France.

England ruled over the Iraq region, Israel/Palestinian region, Pakistan and India.

maybe you should learn what role Europe had before critising only America. I agree that America hasn't always done thet right thing. Sometimes the action is right for the times - but later - seems like the wrong action. You can't judge the past in the eyes of today. Look at slavery in America - Europe started that and it's something that we're still paying for here.

***Khamûl*** · 11-01-2002, 12:06 AM

These threads become a bit tiresome after you see so many of them. They wander away from the topic (whatever it is) and end up with people arguing about what's wrong with America, why America was wrong for doing this or that, etc. And then people start taking things personally, and it gets heated. I believe afro-elf started a thread called "anti-american sentiments" a while ago. You might find it interesting.

In the meantime, I say again that this debate is not going anywhere. Pretty much all major points have been argued in the last 23 pages. There haven't been any major events lately in the course of action against Iraq. There is only the development of North Korea, which has nothing to do with this thread. Just let it be for a while.

Coney · 11-01-2002, 12:11 AM

Fair enough......I'm still amazed why JD qoutes my posts while refering to history in his statments though

I guess it doesn't matter tho

..........he'll get to justify it one day

blame history for the present...........for your son's will do the same

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
Fair enough......I'm still amazed why JD qoutes my posts while refering to history in his statments though

I guess it doesn't matter tho ..........he'll get to justify it one day

blame history for the present...........for your son's will do the same

What you think that the Middle east situation just appeared because of US involvement? That Europe hasn't nor has any role in the current situations?

Coney · 11-01-2002, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
What you think that the Middle east situation just appeared because of US involvement? That Europe hasn't nor has any role in the current situations?

Did I say that the middle east situation was solely because of the USA? NO.........do I believe that the USA is antagonising the Iraqi situation ........YES!! and my reasons are echoed in numerous posts in this thread

Why would you suggest that I said that the situation appeared because of US involvment??? are you purposely looking for even more direct attacks on the US?..........Paranoia is a worrying trait JD, especially in a member of a superpower democracy

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
Did I say that the middle east situation was solely because of the USA? NO.........do I believe that the USA is antagonising the Iraqi situation ........YES!! and my reasons are echoed in numerous posts in this thread

Why would you suggest that I said that the situation appeared because of US involvment??? are you purposely looking for even more direct attacks on the US?..........Paranoia is a worrying trait JD, especially in a member of a superpower democracy

Well considering the fact that I have never heard you mention any role that Europe played in creating this mess - but I do see you spouting off about everything wrong the US does.

As it turns out - legally the US doesn't need a new resolution to attack Iraq. Technically since Iraq didn't comply with the previous UN resolutions - the Gulf War has never ended. Maybe if the UN and the world community did their job after the Gulf War - we wouldn't be talking about the US attacking Iraq now.

It's not paranoia. When Clinton first went after Al Qaeda after the US Emabassy bombings - the world also criticised the US. No one around the world, including Americans, felt Al Qaeda was a threat. We didn't go any further and we have lost 3,000 people - not to mention an entire "city".

Just because you don't see why we should go after Hussein right now - doesn't mean that the situation won't get worse and we'll have to deal with a bigger problem in the future.

BeardofPants · 11-01-2002, 02:21 AM

ENOUGH with the finger pointing. Khamul, I think you should probably just close this thread.

Lief Erikson · 11-01-2002, 02:32 AM

No, BeardofPants, there I disagree with you. Perhaps reasonable discussion degenerates to finger pointing, but even if it does, when something new on the situation comes up it is good to have a topic open. It helps some people to learn that these things happen and it also enables people to discuss the situation.

I think that if people think the discussion is going nowhere, they'll drop out, and then it will go nowhere. And then it will come up again when further news arrives, but it should be open as an option to people.

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
ENOUGH with the finger pointing. Khamul, I think you should probably just close this thread.

Oh - but it's okay to constantly and relentlessly point the finger at Ameica.

What I was stating was historical fact. The problems we deal with today in the Middle East and in Africa are a left over from Europe's colonialism. So if you want to criticise the US for what we do today to handle the situation, you should criticise the actions of the previous players in this global mess. Or better yet - criticise the regimes that let THEIR people starve.

I love how people demonstrate against the US and our policies. I don't see any demonstration against Iraq or the suicide bombers or the North Koreans, or the Saudis. Is it that maybe because even the demostrators are smart enough to realise that they're voices will go on deaf ears? If you want to demonstrate - why don't you demonstrate against the real evil and speak out against them and their policies.

BeardofPants · 11-01-2002, 03:18 AM

JD, this is very repetitive. This paranoia that you have is very tiresome. When I said to stop the finger pointing, I meant ALL of it. Don't try and stick that on me.

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
JD, this is very repetitive. This paranoia that you have is very tiresome. When I said to stop the finger pointing, I meant ALL of it. Don't try and stick that on me.

Well if your tired of it - then stop replying. Don't try playing moderator. Your and everyone else's constant attacks on America is what is getting tiresome.

BeardofPants · 11-01-2002, 04:31 PM

Yeah, and I can turn that back on you: you don't have to reply either.

You accuse people of "attacking America", when only perhaps a couple have been doing so. The rest of us have been trying to discuss the Iraq situation. But I now see that it is perhaps a rather futile exercise, when people like you persist in twisting everyone's arguments out of context.

You are right though, I have exhausted what I have to say here. Consider my two cents over and done with. This thread really is going nowhere.

Oh, and I wasn't playing moderater, you silly git, I was trying to divert this back into a civil debate about the topic at hand. Again, a futile exercise.

Coney · 11-01-2002, 05:48 PM

WOW I'd been wondering what I'd been up to when I was drinking last night.........appears that I'd been posting on here lolol

Thanks for a wonderful evenings entertainment JD

......I don't think I would have had the patience for this "debate" sober.

jerseydevil · 11-01-2002, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Yeah, and I can turn that back on you: you don't have to reply either. You accuse people of "attacking America", when only perhaps a couple have been doing so. The rest of us have been trying to discuss the Iraq situation. But I now see that it is perhaps a rather futile exercise, when people like you persist in twisting everyone's arguments out of context.

You are right though, I have exhausted what I have to say here. Consider my two cents over and done with. This thread really is going nowhere.

You had exhausted what you had to sday along time ago. OOOPs I was going to repeat what you said - but I better not - otherwise you'd accuse me of twisting it around.

Quote:

Oh, and I wasn't playing moderater, you silly git, I was trying to divert this back into a civil debate about the topic at hand. Again, a futile exercise.

Sure - when you keep a conversation civil without going on personal attacks (which I did not resort to until I was repeatedly attacked) that will be the day.

Radagast The Brown · 11-01-2002, 06:34 PM

I don't think that this argument add something important to the thread. But you can PM if you want.

Quote:

originally posted by JC
What I was stating was historical fact. The problems we deal with today in the Middle East and in Africa are a left over from Europe's colonialism. So if you want to criticise the US for what we do today to handle the situation, you should criticise the actions of the previous players in this global mess. Or better yet - criticise the regimes that let THEIR people starve.

I think that most of the europains don't hate US, just most of the Franc people, and some of other countries... but they do hate jews, witch is pretty annoying. Not more then that, because it doesn't l;et you to go out to Europe a lot. Some one did a poll on that and the Spanish were most anti-shemis. oops.... I think I should go back to Iraq. Well, I don't like them, they don't like us, but I can't see them NOW as a threat. Maybe more couple of years... but it's a good thing that US will attack this country, to prevent troubles in the future.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-01-2002, 07:41 PM

Administrative Warning- This will only be said once. If you wish to discuss Iraq, then do so in an intelligent and respectful fashion. That means without bashing other countries, and without flaming other members. If this thread continues on its current course, I will not hesitate to close it. Political discussion is a sensitive topic and your conduct is expected to be civil. Anymore flaming or disrespectful and negative comments about another's country will result in the closing of this thread, and other possible action for the delibrate violation of the posting policies which you agreed to abide by when registering to this message board. I hope I have made myself clear.

Cirdan · 11-01-2002, 08:27 PM

What about slightly disgrunted comments about the leadership of my own country?

10-31-2002, 11:34 PM	#461
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Make me the third person that thinks this debate is going nowhere. There is really nothing to debate that hasn't already been run into the ground. It's inevitable that these things always end up blaming America. Why don't we just let this thing rest? __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

11-01-2002, 12:06 AM	#465
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	These threads become a bit tiresome after you see so many of them. They wander away from the topic (whatever it is) and end up with people arguing about what's wrong with America, why America was wrong for doing this or that, etc. And then people start taking things personally, and it gets heated. I believe afro-elf started a thread called "anti-american sentiments" a while ago. You might find it interesting. In the meantime, I say again that this debate is not going anywhere. Pretty much all major points have been argued in the last 23 pages. There haven't been any major events lately in the course of action against Iraq. There is only the development of North Korea, which has nothing to do with this thread. Just let it be for a while. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

11-01-2002, 12:11 AM	#466
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	Fair enough......I'm still amazed why JD qoutes my posts while refering to history in his statments though I guess it doesn't matter tho ..........he'll get to justify it one day blame history for the present...........for your son's will do the same __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica Last edited by Coney : 11-01-2002 at 12:13 AM.

11-01-2002, 02:21 AM	#470
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	ENOUGH with the finger pointing. Khamul, I think you should probably just close this thread. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-01-2002, 02:32 AM	#471
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	No, BeardofPants, there I disagree with you. Perhaps reasonable discussion degenerates to finger pointing, but even if it does, when something new on the situation comes up it is good to have a topic open. It helps some people to learn that these things happen and it also enables people to discuss the situation. I think that if people think the discussion is going nowhere, they'll drop out, and then it will go nowhere. And then it will come up again when further news arrives, but it should be open as an option to people. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-01-2002 at 02:34 AM.

11-01-2002, 03:18 AM	#473
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	JD, this is very repetitive. This paranoia that you have is very tiresome. When I said to stop the finger pointing, I meant ALL of it. Don't try and stick that on me. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-01-2002, 04:31 PM	#475
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yeah, and I can turn that back on you: you don't have to reply either. You accuse people of "attacking America", when only perhaps a couple have been doing so. The rest of us have been trying to discuss the Iraq situation. But I now see that it is perhaps a rather futile exercise, when people like you persist in twisting everyone's arguments out of context. You are right though, I have exhausted what I have to say here. Consider my two cents over and done with. This thread really is going nowhere. Oh, and I wasn't playing moderater, you silly git, I was trying to divert this back into a civil debate about the topic at hand. Again, a futile exercise. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-01-2002, 05:48 PM	#476
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	WOW I'd been wondering what I'd been up to when I was drinking last night.........appears that I'd been posting on here lolol Thanks for a wonderful evenings entertainment JD ......I don't think I would have had the patience for this "debate" sober. __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

11-01-2002, 07:41 PM	#479
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Administrative Warning- This will only be said once. If you wish to discuss Iraq, then do so in an intelligent and respectful fashion. That means without bashing other countries, and without flaming other members. If this thread continues on its current course, I will not hesitate to close it. Political discussion is a sensitive topic and your conduct is expected to be civil. Anymore flaming or disrespectful and negative comments about another's country will result in the closing of this thread, and other possible action for the delibrate violation of the posting policies which you agreed to abide by when registering to this message board. I hope I have made myself clear.

11-01-2002, 08:27 PM	#480
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	What about slightly disgrunted comments about the leadership of my own country? __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

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