Religious Knowledge Thread

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Gnostics taught that salvation came from hidden knowledge, right?

yes as far as I know, they believed that salvation came from secret knowledge.

[Baby-K]

I have a few questions & I hope you guys can help me out:

1. Where did God come from (who made him)?
2. If God has been around forever, then why did he only make earth etc a few million years ago? Is that when time started?
3. What was here before time?
4. Is space really never ending? If not, what's at the end?
5. If aliens do exist, did God make them too?
6. If God made aliens, why didn't he just put them on earth too?
7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.


I have a few more, but will need to think how I want to phrase them. Sorry if this seems daft, guess I never asked these questions when I was a kid

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Baby K
I have a few more, but will need to think how I want to phrase them. Sorry if this seems daft, guess I never asked these questions when I was a kid

Ha! Now it's my turn to tell you you're not daft! They're interesting questions, most of which I don't know the answers to, but I'll try with some.

1. Where did God come from (who made him)?
2. If God has been around forever, then why did he only make earth etc a few million years ago? Is that when time started?

1) No one made God and he didn't come from anywhere, He has always existed. He is the Creator- no one could make Him.

2) I think time started before the earth's creation. Maybe before that He was planning the creation? It would have taken a long time to make the Universe- though it is described as '7 days', that could be representative of other periods of time. Like '40 days/years' is a common time period in the bible, possibly denoting long periods of time.

5. If aliens do exist, did God make them too?
6. If God made aliens, why didn't he just put them on earth too?

5) Yes. He created everything/everyone
6) Well, wouldn't it be strange to have this universe that goes on for infinity, and all living creatures could be found on one tiny planet?

7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.

7) Heaven is our reward- I don't get your question. That's the point- heaven is the reward for living 'according to God's Will' - how can you be rewarded for something you can't do?

8) God gave us free will - this is a very important belief. Can you imagine knowing what happens to you, anyway? Wouldn't it be cruel to tell people that such and such will happen, and there's nothing you can do about it? Also, it is often during times of hardship that judgements of character can be made. Furthermore, our lives are not supposed to be perfect; we have to find out things for ourselves.

[Linaewen]

Hope this helps, K. I'm hardly an expert on Christianity, but I wanted to try and answer these questions anyway.
You need Gwai or someone else for the really good answers. (Though he is often extremely confusing )

[Baby-K]

I appreciate the effort Lin

What I'd meant with number 7 was that, if we had been created in God's image we must all be good (no evil), then why would it be necessary for him to remove us from his side (heaven) and place us on earth where we must be tempted etc to eventually get back into heaven? Does he not like us? Surely if you love someone / something you wouldn't cast them from your side only to tell them that you can come back if you do as I say, because if he had not placed us on earth we wouldn't even know that any other options existed?

One other:

9. Why did God have to create Adam & Eve? If there were already angels, why didn't he just put a few of them on earth? If he had done that then surely they would have been able to resist tempation?

Well, wouldn't it be strange to have this universe that goes on for infinity, and all living creatures could be found on one tiny planet?

But then, why waste so much space & why need to create other planets? Why not just make earth big enough for everyone?

[Linaewen]

9. Why did God have to create Adam & Eve? If there were already angels, why didn't he just put a few of them on earth? If he had done that then surely they would have been able to resist tempation?

I don't believe that that story is true. It is an explanation of why there is sin/negative things in the world. Not quite sure about that one, tho.

But then, why waste so much space & why need to create other planets? Why not just make earth big enough for everyone?

Maybe cause we'd have this gigantic planet where everyone would just kill each other even more? I mean, humans are the only 'real' speaking race on this planet. Can you imagine, even just one more? We already kill each other so much; more 'intelligent' races might create havoc. I think.

What I'd meant with number 7 was that, if we had been created in God's image we must all be good (no evil),

No, no, no. We are created in His image . We are not remotely like Him, erm.. 'personality'-wise. As Gwai said in a PM to me, we can never, ever dream to be as 'good' as God is. I'll try find it and post that bit, if ya like.

[Baby-K]

No, no, no. We are create in His image . We are not remotely like Him, erm.. 'personality'-wise. As Gwai said in a PM to me, we can never, ever dream to be as 'good' as God is. I'll try find it and post that bit, if ya like.

I know we cannot be as good as God, but what I meant was that, if we are in his image yeah, and he loves us unconditionally etc etc, why did he have to put us on earth and not in heaven? It doesn't make sense to me, 'cos if his eventual goal is for us all to be with him, why go through all the rigmarole of placing us on earth and allowing us to be tempted away from him?

Example: You are in the living room with your mom & enjoying being with her, chatting & laughing etc. Next thing she says to you "Lin, I've made some very special cookies, but you are not allowed to have any. These cookies are in the kitchen, inside the yellow jar on the counter to your left." The your mom gets up, takes you by the hand & leads you to the kitchen. She places you at the table & says "You have to stay here now until I decide you are good enough to come back to the living room, but in the meantime you are not allowed to eat those cookies. But if you decide to have a cookie I'll forgive you as long as you show me you're really sorry" So she walks out & locks the door behind her, yelling through it "Remember not to eat the cookies!".

You see, you didn't do anything wrong, yet she takes you away from where you were happy & you didn't even know about the cookies until she told you about them. Plus she tells you about them 3 times & that you cannot have, but because you are curious you take a look, then you get hungry, but you still don't take one, but the longer you stay there the angrier you get at the situation til eventually you eat all the cookies to prove a point & then you decide that the kitchen's nice so why would you want to go to the living room?

This is sort of what I meant; think of Heaven as the living room, earth as the kitchen, your mother as God, you represent the human race and the cookies are sin.

Does this make sense to you? Why would God want to tell us not to do stuff we'd never had known existed until he told us not to do it & if we were living in heaven?

[Linaewen]

Yes, K, I understand. Great analogy.

My answer is: I guess it's sort of a test. Am I (The notorious cookie lover) 'worthy' enough of the living room? Do I listen to and obey my mother, or do I eat the cookies anyway? And if I eat the cookies, do I repent?

Did you know that God treasures those who go astray from him, and then repent, more than those who never went astray in the first place?

[Baby-K]

But Lin, you were all perfectly happy in the living room until mom decided that you now have to go to the kitchen & if she had not mentioned it you would not have known there were cookies, so you wouldn't have eaten them & thus would not have had anything to repent about (also, if they were the first ever cookies you would not have known what they were unless she told you & put you in the kitchen where there were so many cookies to be had & you would never have become a cookie lover). So what would motivate her to want you out of the living room? Why does she want to test you - to see if you deserve to be there? Is that not mean? And if she then says she loves you unconditionally, would you believe her? If she loved you unconditionally then why did she take you away from her side?

Surely if God was afraid that there might be another revolt in heaven (like with the fall of Lucifer) he could have done the same thing he did then (i. e chuck the bad ones out) in stead of chucking everyone out & watching & hoping that we won't be corrupted by the temptation he has now so willingly placed in our lives?

[Linaewen]

Bugger. At first that cookie analogy was really good, now it's just confuzzling me majorly.

Why does she want to test you - to see if you deserve to be there? Is that not mean? And if she then says she loves you unconditionally, would you believe her? If she loved you unconditionally then why did she take you away from her side?

I don't know if it's mean or not. Hmmmm

Hold on, if she loves me unconditionally, how could that be if don't do any wrong? If you did nothing wrong, and was perfect like you said, that could be normal love or sommat because there isn't anything to compare it to. I guess.

[Baby-K]

You see now why I have problems dealing with such things? I always ask too many questions I guess

Hold on, if she loves me unconditionally, how could that be if don't do any wrong? If you did nothing wrong, and was perfect like you said, that could be normal love or sommat because there isn't anything to compare it to. I guess.

We can go in circles the whole night...again, why would she want to have something to compare it with. Does she doubt her own love? Does she think you aren't good enough to be loved? You see, to me it sorta seems like a sick mind game...

(Hey Lin, won't your mom be chuffed to know she is God? )

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Baby-K
You see now why I have problems dealing with such things? I always ask too many questions I guess

We can go in circles the whole night...again, why would she want to have something to compare it with. Does she doubt her own love? Does she think you aren't good enough to be loved? You see, to me it sorta seems like a sick mind game...

(Hey Lin, won't your mom be chuffed to know she is God? )

Yes. You ask a lot, and I can only feebly attempt to answer them.

Oh, I don't know! God playing a sick mind game? No!!! It's not His fault I have to answer all these questions, not nearly as well as they should be answered.

(I've no doubt she would be. It would just get to her head, being a few days from Mother's Day and all, I'm afraid. I fear I will walk around looking at her suspiciously from now on, trying to see whether she wants me to eat cookies or not)

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Yes. You ask a lot, and I can only feebly attempt to answer them.

Oh, I don't know! God playing a sick mind game? No!!! It's not His fault I have to answer all these questions, not nearly as well as they should be answered.

(I've no doubt she would be. It would just get to her head, being a few days from Mother's Day and all, I'm afraid. I fear I will walk around looking at her suspiciously from now on, trying to see whether she wants me to eat cookies or not)

I won't pester you anymore, provided you answer all the questions in the Anything thread

I can only imagine how your mom will react when she catches you trying to glare at her from beneath your lashes...she'll prolly think you've gone mad.

Great diet though (methinks) from now on everytime you see a cookie you will think of sin......

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Baby-K
I have a few questions & I hope you guys can help me out:

1. Where did God come from (who made him)?
2. If God has been around forever, then why did he only make earth etc a few million years ago? Is that when time started?
3. What was here before time?
4. Is space really never ending? If not, what's at the end?
5. If aliens do exist, did God make them too?
6. If God made aliens, why didn't he just put them on earth too?
7. If we are made in God's image, why do we need to live on earth & not in heaven? Surely if we were all living in heaven and not on earth we would not be tested & sin would not exist so we'd have nothing to 'avoid' and thus we would live perfect lives & would be living with our maker (as the bible promises as reward for living accrding to God's will)
8. If God has a plan for our lives, then why doesn't he just tell us what it is in stead of watching us struggle & stumble & get hurt in trying to find out for ourselves? The struggle doesn't seem fair & serves to alienate people rather than bring them closer to him.


I have a few more, but will need to think how I want to phrase them. Sorry if this seems daft, guess I never asked these questions when I was a kid

1) God was not created; He has always been. An interesting thing to note is that in the Creation story, it does not ever say that God came from here, or anything like that. He simply was, and is, and will continue to be.
2) I don't really think this is a question that can very well be answered by anyone except God Himself. Though other Christians might prove me wrong!
3) See above.
4) I think it is, but that's not really a question I can answer, having never studied space. I'm not sure even those who have could.
5) If they do, then yes, as He is the Author and Creator of the universe.
6) If I may quote Contact: 'It'd be an awful waste of space.'
7) Free will. When God made mankind, rather than make him a mindless automaton which served Him without a thought, he gave us Free-will, so that we could choose to follow God and love Him. The purpose of our time on Earth (which is after all but the blinking of an eye) is, I think, to be tested, and that we may choose to spend eternity with God, or apart from Him.
8) God gives us free will, and allows us to seek His will if we choose to, rather than forcing it upon us. And again, this is part of the thing of letting us choose to follow Him and giving us the choice of Free will.
And nine is really pretty much the same thing, too. This is a central concept of Christianity, that God gives us the choice to serve Him or not to serve Him. The purpose was to give us Free will.

[Baby-K]

Gwai, would we have needed free will if we had stayed in heaven? That's the question - why did he put us on earth and not in heaven? Why was earth needed, was heaven crowded?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Sorry, I can't reply now, have to go to work. I hope some of the other Christians here come to the rescue.

[GrayMouser]

Who was it (St. Anselm?), when asked what God was doing before He created the Earth, replied that He was building a special Hell for people who asked such questions

[GrayMouser]

And speaking of Hell, find out where you belong...

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Gnostics taught that salvation came from hidden knowledge, right?

They didn't glorify Jesus death as some sort of human sacrifice in which sins were purged through his suffering. They said that his teachings were the source of salvation. As far as the concept of it being "hidden", you're mixing that with the translation of "arcana" which is not a gnostic concept. Jesus teachings are pretty obvious, unless you try to create a mystery cult out of his life and turn him into Orpheus Which is exactly what the human sacrifice for salvation people did. Of course, you could risk heresy and look up the translation of the Gospel of Thomas online.

[Insidious Rex]

avoiding the god questions K....

Originally posted by Baby-K
2. If God has been around forever, then why did he only make earth etc a few million years ago? Is that when time started?

Earth is roughly 4 BILLION years old actually. just a hair younger then the solar system itself. What we percieve as time (and space) "started" around 14 billion years ago after the big bang.

3. What was here before time?

nothing. all matter was compressed into an infinitely small point. there were no physical laws as we know them. so therefor there was no time.

4. Is space really never ending? If not, what's at the end?

depends how you define end. our universe has been expanding at the speed of light for the last 14 billion years so that makes it pretty big but not technically never ending. i mean how can you ever reach infinity you know? BUT our universe may exist in just one dimension bubble that is itself in a much larger space with countless other dimension bubbles. when bubbles collide you get big bang like events. although this is supposition at this point.

EDIT: think theres a thread in here somewhere where we actually talked ourselves into the idea that time doesnt really exist. but im late so i dont have time to look it up.....