04-08-2005, 12:35 PM | #441 | |
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(funny, Val, I noticed that "submit reply" button, too! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-08-2005, 12:40 PM | #442 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-08-2005, 12:50 PM | #443 | |||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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The rest of the question is an excellent one, and I'd love to deal with it later (as well as the rest of the post) - gtg now (I already have 5 posts in a row! ) Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-08-2005 at 12:52 PM. |
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04-08-2005, 12:52 PM | #444 |
Elf Lord
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[QUOTE=jerseydevil]See - I also don't think anyone is emminently qualified ot state what christians beleives and whether I am practicing the religion right now is not an issue. it's not like my mind was wiped clean you know. however - there are MANY different beliefs in christianity - and for people to say that christians believe this or that is completely wrong.[QUOTE/]
Not precisely accurate, JD. The creeds (Apostle's, Nicene, and Athanasian) as well as Oecumenical Councils of the undivided Church do actually define the Faith. But what I think you intend is that the individual may not be eminently qualified to (pardon me) pontificate to the exclusion of other Christians in what is known as "individual interpretation". This gets to the heart of submission as a biblical principle in general. Christians of the persuasion you note do make certain assumptions and actions as normative within their subculture. Catholic christians (Roman, Anglican, Orthodox, Uniate) have a differing culture or cultures. All Christians are not alike anymore than all atheists are George Bernard Shaw.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 04-08-2005 at 12:53 PM. |
04-08-2005, 12:55 PM | #445 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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For quotes: Put [quote=personsname] at the beginning of the section you want to quote, and [/quote] at the end.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-08-2005 at 01:11 PM. |
04-08-2005, 03:46 PM | #446 | |
Elf Lord
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my thanks |
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04-08-2005, 04:51 PM | #447 |
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with respect to both you Rian, and JD could we get away from the (entertaining to a degree) pointless warfare (i'm sure you both enjoy it: forgetting for a momment the almost certain pratical impossibilities - you guys should get married! anyone else agree? -but thats a whole other -come to think of it -Totally relevant to this discussion - thread?)
Valandil: LCOU is 100% quite correct re: English History a modern day "wedding Breakfast" relates back to the law or custom relating to any unhappy Husband being able to sell her at market before Breakfast (i think within 24 hrs of Wedlock? - but true nonthe less Last edited by Butterbeer : 04-08-2005 at 05:10 PM. |
04-08-2005, 06:18 PM | #448 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-08-2005 at 06:19 PM. |
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04-09-2005, 08:47 AM | #449 | |||||
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This is all I share with the main character of The Poisonwood Bible (even though he never narrates) Nathan Price (a Southern Baptist missionary who goes to the Congo, bringing his family with him). But he would still say I'm his sister in Christ, and then probably say I'm a sinner for the rest of my beliefs. (I'm very into this book at the moment. I recommend it. ) Anyway I digress. I don't think what you use for Communion is the important part, the grape juice or the wine represents (or is) Jesus's blood - that's the point, that He died for us. (Bringing us back to the three substantial points.) Mary is important though. Perhaps this is a substantial point on which different Christians disagree, but hey, that's why we have denominations right? Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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04-09-2005, 12:10 PM | #450 | |||
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Frequently people stick with the religion in which they were brought up, as you say, but there are nonetheless major exceptions. Doubtless there are many examples I could point to outside of Christianity as well.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-09-2005, 12:15 PM | #451 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-09-2005, 12:18 PM | #452 | |
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04-09-2005, 12:42 PM | #453 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-09-2005, 01:54 PM | #454 | ||||||
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Also, don't Mormons consider themselves Christians, despite holding the Book of Mormon equal to the Bible? I guess that's another thing for the 'List of things all Christians believe' - the Bible has to be the only holy book. (I think there are other books in the world that are holy, but the Bible is the only one that has spiritual meaning to me.) Quote:
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Missionaries aren't solely the product of people believing that if you weren't Christian then you would go to hell (which, being decent people by and large, they didn't want to happen to anyone). There is at least one other factor at work - being members of a society so arrogant that they were encouraged to go 'civilize the savages'. People may not have felt that their religion was the only right answer if they weren't members of a society that thought it was the only right answer. Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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04-09-2005, 02:17 PM | #455 | ||||||
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Anyway, whether evangelicals annoy you or not, their major success amongst people raised non-Christian is a strong indicator that people are ready to change from one religion to another. Quote:
I don't know about your 95% statistic. I don't know what the statistic is, but I agree with you that many Christians aren't real Christians, many Muslims aren't real Muslims and many Hindus aren't real Hindus. They don't really believe the stuff, but believe it because they're brought up with it. Also often they don't have anything come upon them that really challenges their thinking. Pain or hardship often causes people to question and to really think, whatever religion they belong to. It causes them to really ponder, and sometimes can instigate a search for God. Other times it can instigate a repulsion from God. People often just aren't interested enough to move out of their comfort zone and really tackle the issues or think about them. Remove the comfort zone, and there's no barrier left. I agree that many people are this way, and I hate that. I understand it intellectually, but I hate it. People prefer not to think, prefer to do their own thing. Ambivalence . You and I, I think, are in general agreement over ambivalence being disgusting and VERY commonplace. Massive conversions do happen though, from one religion to another, where ambivalence is weak. I don't know that the fact that ambivalence exists says much about the religions themselves- only about the people. Just as politics manipulating religions doesn't necessarily say anything about the religions- only about the politics. I don't really understand your argument here .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-09-2005, 02:26 PM | #456 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-09-2005, 04:00 PM | #457 | |
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There's some other missionaries from our church that live in a Romanian orphange with abandoned and orphaned Gypsy children and help take care of them. Shall I give you their email addys so you can tell them you don't like what they're doing, since they're missionaries? Some friends of ours just left for Papua New Guinea. There are tribes there who have been asking for missionaries to come for 10 years or more. They'll probably be there 15 to 20 years, living among them, giving them medical help, learning their language, making a written language for them, and teaching them to read and write, etc. etc. Next time I talk to them, shall I suggest that they leave, even tho the tribe has been waiting for over 10 years for a missionary to come? I totally agree that the "colonizing" missionaries were harmful and wrong. However, I think you may not be aware of how many missionaries are today, and all the good they do, and how they work WITHIN the culture.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-09-2005, 04:02 PM | #458 | |
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(and butterbeer - did you see my 2 posts in response to yours?) And I would agree with you marriage is NOT like a project at work or school - yet the concept of leadership among peers is a pretty good analogy for how I feel it works, so that's why I shared it.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-09-2005 at 04:06 PM. |
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04-09-2005, 06:16 PM | #459 |
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[QUOTE=R*an]OK - I think we're probably done with the subject of Biblical submission in marriage, then - is that right, people?
(and butterbeer - did you see my 2 posts in response to yours?)[QUOTE] i did thanks, i'm happy if you are. regarding tranlsations and transliterations, well i think it'd be foolish to assume everything is or would be hunky-dory and perfect: for a start language changes over time as do meaning and (effectively) inlection or tone or nuance and even at the smallest lowest levels mistakes or innacuracies are bound to occur. This but the merest tip of a huge ocean iceburg of potential causes. My position on this is that this should be taken as read by any intelligent person whether religious or not: the question is not to what extent it occurs but what approach individuals take in realtion to their moral and spitirtual interpretations or practical living belif systems. I will say here and now anydebate or dispute that it happens at all, just won't cut any mustard with me and i'd not enter any further into it! Thanks for taking the time to respond though: i found the debate interesting esp when it was clash between idealogies and cultural perceptions rather than just a clash. Though not my cup of tea, its good to know that there are genuine beleivers out there: i have muchmore respect for real christians or any other beleivers if they are true to what they beleive (at least on a personal level) though like JD i certainly do not want it thrust at me or unthinkingedly followed by others: as i said i trust and beleive from what you've said and argued that this is not the case with yourself Rian, so good luck! Ps if evolution is correct, what is your problem (if any) with saying God created the universe etc to evolve scientifically? |
04-09-2005, 06:20 PM | #460 |
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What is our next theological discussion then?
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