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05-23-2005, 05:28 AM
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#441 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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What are you talking about?
Don't you know that George Galloway made no statement to the Senate committee?
Galloway censored from Senate proceedings You people have some vivid imagination. Fortunately, our cousins in the US Government have an unflinching dedication to making sure that the truth is recorded without ever editing out inconvenient facts or proceedings at all, ever. |
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05-23-2005, 08:00 AM
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#442 | |
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The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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Quote:
 well, i am not going to say anything about erasing records and so on, but it does seem a little, gee i don't know, corrupt, doesn't it? |
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05-25-2005, 09:12 AM
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#443 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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I'm not really going to comment on the morality of this, mainly because I don't know. On the one hand it doesn't seem very fair, on the other he wasn't exactly keeping on topic, and after all, he is George Galloway - seems a good enough motive to annoy him...
What interests me about this is that it seems like the ineffectual joke of the senate committee that everyone was putting down is starting to play a little hard ball.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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05-25-2005, 11:53 AM
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#444 | |
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Rohirrim Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 590
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05-25-2005, 01:07 PM
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#445 |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Wow, that took a long time; I expected Chrys to come up with that two weeks ago.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-25-2005, 07:51 PM
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#446 | |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
I believe that isn't quite true; from what I understand, our congressmen can edit the records before they're officially published - anything from fixing grammatical errors to totally changing what they said. U.S. History buffs - any more info?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun!  Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 05-25-2005 at 07:53 PM. |
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05-26-2005, 03:42 AM
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#447 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I appreciate that the purpose of the committee is to get to the truth behind their remit, but am amazed that they didn't record Galloway's testimony.
I have a good friend who works for the Official Report of the Scottish Parliament. Modelled on the Westminster approach, their policy is to report all proceedings "substantially verbatim" (wonderful phrase). This means that everything anyone says when Parliament or a Committee are in session is recorded word-for-word. Any compromise on the "verbatim" element is considered to be a very serious matter because of the potential for abuse. As with all censorship, it strikes me as counter-productive. If they thought he just ranted on in a meaningless way, why didn't they just record it and let him be damned by his own words? By removing the testimony they have given the impression that they are either spiteful or have something to hide, or both. Last edited by The Gaffer : 05-26-2005 at 03:44 AM. |
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05-26-2005, 05:35 AM
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#448 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Yes, that is right. In Britain with our marvellously corrupt politicians, giving them the opportunity to edit proceedings... well...
I'm not surprised that they changed Mr Galloway's testimony, but I am surprised by how liberally it can be done (if I read what you were implying right, Rian). Perhaps they're being compassionate towards GG and saving work for the DoJ...
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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06-14-2005, 09:44 AM
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#449 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Hey, Janny, they don't want to just edit proceedings! This could be a major change in British humor, don't you think?
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05061005.html No more crazy silliness since humor is just disguised cruelty, ya know  !Unless this bill is a joke  ?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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06-14-2005, 12:06 PM
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#450 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Nope, it's not a joke. It's just a government that relies on the media to think through ramifications of the laws it passes...
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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06-14-2005, 12:50 PM
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#451 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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You might be right, Janny, but this makes me really wonder.....
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog...t_be_arrested/ I mean, drunken graduates and absurd comments under the influence ... calling the horse gay is pretty absurd ... but enforcing drunk laws would have seemed more appropriate, eh?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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06-14-2005, 04:49 PM
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#452 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Well, Inked, the real concern here is for those who are now entering the application cycle for Oxbridge. I would quite like a place at Oxford. I'd have no objection to attending Balliol. How exactly is this process conducted that lets people who get drunk and hurl homophobic abuse at horses, and also, let's not forget sun-star, into their university.
It's a funny (odd, not actually funny) news item, and one wishes that perhaps all invloved had acted differently. But one should not think that this is some sort of pandemic, drunken toffs marauding our streets and verbally abusing our horses, who are indeed at liberty to select their own sexuality. :P I'm pretty sure it must be an isolated incident. [Cue thought of CJ Cregg on podium: "Just because it was the President's horse who was sexually harrassed last night, we shouldn't forget little Stanley the foal who was abused last night. Or Dansy the Colt. Or any of the 52 hundred other horses who were victims of horse abuse last night."] But the serious point I might just pluck from the jaws of defeat. This is how the law is interpreted? What does happen with the new incitement for racial hatred law? All I said was...
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. Last edited by Janny : 06-14-2005 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Syntax stupidity |
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06-14-2005, 05:05 PM
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#453 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Good luck. old man! Shaying stober mibght ve bery help*hic*ful, I fould guinness. (And, be very, very respectful to the horses!
 )
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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06-14-2005, 05:30 PM
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#454 |
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The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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i despise oxbridge
 i am going to exeter uni, which i know, from experence, has a great socialist undercurrent among the students, having lived in exeter for 16 of my 19 years |
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06-15-2005, 08:56 AM
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#455 |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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*bangs head on desk repeatedly*
I read that story two weeks ago when it was in the student press here and my only hope was "please, don't let this get onto the internet/national press"! It's far more attention than this guy deserves in my opinion. I'm sure it's very amusing, but he was yelling at a policeman in the street while drunk and disorderly, and you don't get to do that. Or you shouldn't get to do that. All the commentators (i.e. Mark Steyn) who complain about how the police can't keep yobs off our streets don't seem to mind so much when they're Oxford yobs. Let me just inform you all, I will be celebrating the end of my exams safely, responsibly and without any horse-baiting
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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06-15-2005, 09:03 AM
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#456 | |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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06-15-2005, 04:46 PM
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#457 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Funny is funny, regardless of minority or majority, was rather the point, Sun-star. That and the vaunting pride which is the English sense of humour (the only deficiency, as Screwtape observed, that they feel might really be a sin)!
Any legislation of this sort turns into "hate crime" speech. Think of all the catholic humor we will lose: I say, Father Jones, why is all that filthy water pouring down your church steps? Well, Rev. Dr. Williams, we've been baptizing Anglicans, you see, and... . And to ban the old saw about the farmer in Confession revealing he had stolen his neighbors baled hay? On being given his penance, he asked the priest, "Could you just double that, Father? I'm going back for the rest of it tonight!" To forego comments about Baptists missing meetings due to rain? Really, Sun-star, you haven't thought this through, have you? 
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 06-15-2005 at 04:47 PM. |
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06-16-2005, 06:11 AM
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#458 |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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It doesn't take much thought to realise that laws rarely end up being used as scaremongers claim they will be. If you look at the wording of the proposed legislation, you will see that it is designed to prevent the incitement of religious hatred, not jokes about religion. No court in Britain (whatever they may do in America) would take seriously a case against a comedian like Rowan Atkinson for making a religious joke. It would be necessary to prove that the intention was to incite violence or discrimination against a religious group, which would be difficult to prove. We currently have legislation against incitement to racial hatred, but people still make jokes about racial groups without fear of prosecution; the aim is to protect those religious minorities who are not defined as a racial group.
Maybe you should look at more than one op-ed on this topic before coming to a conclusion. Try: Home Office BBC FAQ And some views from both sides of the debate: A Muslim Perspective Comedians' fears
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 06-16-2005 at 06:12 AM. |
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06-19-2005, 07:32 AM
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#459 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Well said, sun-star.
When it was first mooted, I was in favour of the idea, in that it would bring Muslims into line with Jews, Sikhs and other ethnic groups who are currently protected by the Race Relations Act. However, now I'm against it as I think it's fundamentally illiberal. The sorts of hate crimes it should be used again ought to be within the scope of current legislation with minor amendments. It seems that it could be misused by the kinds of people who would have liked to ban Jerry Springer - The Opera, etc. Of course, much of the brouhaha is people who can't let a week pass without printing the phrase "political correctness gone mad" in their newspaper. The reality will, as sun-star points out, be much more restrained, thanks to our unelected judiciary! |
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06-19-2005, 07:38 AM
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#460 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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PS - can't resist it, if you think that that Oxford student is unrepresentative of the population as a whole, check out how many broke their legs etc jumping off Magdalen Bridge on May Day, even though there were barriers, security guards and saturation press and media coverage of how the water was about 18 inches deep:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/o...re/4503027.stm What one has to wonder is how Britain ever managed to run an empire consisting of half the world with twats like these at the helm? |
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