Tolkien's Languages - Page 22

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 08-26-2003, 09:02 AM

No, that is not quite normal. Of Galadriel wouldn't work, Galadrielo, or would it? For some reason I think you would have to double the L, and then it would mean from Galadriel.
More common would be CelebrÃ*an, yelde Galadriel. That would literally be CelebrÃ*an, daughter Galadriel. I don't think an 'of' is necessary. Plus, wouldn't the Elves know who Galadriel's daughter was, and would only use this phrase as a title?

Ruinel · 08-26-2003, 06:28 PM

Elves do not use possessive words when referring to their children. That is something you have to remember.

***Earniel*** · 08-27-2003, 03:48 PM

So suppose somebody wishes to refer to CelebrÃ*an as Galadriel's daughter, then that person could say either CelebrÃ*an yelde Galadriel or CelebrÃ*an Galadriello?

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 08-27-2003, 08:47 PM

Oh no, sorry my miscommunication. One would use CelebrÃ*an yelde Galadriel, and not the other one.

***Earniel*** · 08-28-2003, 04:15 AM

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Ruinel · 09-03-2003, 11:59 AM

I'll repost.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
'lenuva'??? ('shall stretch' ... but that would be lenÃºva, right?)
[i]Shall stretch this day upon my house summer-from out of my house. 'Country/land-lore/study' (study of your country) is Monday.

NÃ³lelya nÃ¡ ÃºsÃ³ra. Nai polda, OrnelÃ*rÃ«. Rato le nauva ingolmo, ar anta handÃ« an liÃ«.

O.o Ai, i nessanÃ« Quendi nar alarca an quer.
I lemnar nÃ¡ la otsola. I otsola nÃ¡ 'n (an) Atani. I lemnar nÃ¡ 'n (an) Quendi.

Man nÃ¡ i aurÃ« an i quendÃ« man cuinanÃ« or 7000 loar?

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-03-2003, 06:41 PM

I already translated that so, my guess: Finrod Felagund? my knowledge of Tolkien is far from sterling, but you love him apparently, and I think he awoke at Cuiveinen. Or is that Thingol? Yes, it is. Well, Thingol, Finrod, Galadriel. My guesses.

Ruinel · 09-04-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
I already translated that so, my guess: Finrod Felagund? my knowledge of Tolkien is far from sterling, but you love him apparently, and I think he awoke at Cuiveinen. Or is that Thingol? Yes, it is. Well, Thingol, Finrod, Galadriel. My guesses.

LOL!

No. I was referring to myself, an Elf of about 7000 years of age.

ROFLMAO

cian · 09-04-2003, 11:28 AM

CelebrÃ*an and Galadriel are Sindarin in any case. Narn i ChÃ®n HÃºrin 'Tale of the Children of HÃºrin' seems to imply that the simple word order genitive might be permissable to denote a similar familial relationship.

Perhaps then sell Galadriel might do for 'daughter of Galadriel' ~ using Ardalambion's current suggested Sindarin wordlist sell (or iell) 'daughter'

In Quenya the genitive case is seen with familial relationships. Note expert Helge Fauskanger's example i arano yondor 'the King's sons'.

Of possible interest: at the time Tolkien wrote the Shibboleth of Feanor Quenya Altariel is said (therein) to be a 'Quenyarized' form of Telerin AlatÃ¡riel(le), though its true form would have been Ã‘altariel

Â¤

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-04-2003, 06:40 PM

Galadriel, (Aalatariel or ~Nalataringe^lle I think) was Noldor. Earniel didn't specify a language. I need to pick up Sindarin! Love the mutations!Thanks very much for you insights, though!

cian · 09-04-2003, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
Galadriel, (Aalatariel or ~Nalataringe^lle I think) was Noldor. Earniel didn't specify a language. I need to pick up Sindarin! Love the mutations!Thanks very much for you insights, though!

Actually I mean the names are Sindarin in form (why I italicized them), I wasn't referring to clan. So the language was already chosen in a sense, and why I posted a suggestion with Sindarin sell

Note Tolkien's Quenya NamÃ¡riÃ«. Altariello NainiÃ« LÃ³riendessÃ« ~ 'Farewell. Galadriel's Lament in LÃ³rien'

Â¤

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-06-2003, 12:31 PM

yes, altariel is a shorter, commoner form. whoops, didnt read the whole post. wont do that again

Ruinel · 09-06-2003, 07:48 PM

ehem.... quetaelme?

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-06-2003, 11:49 PM

we speak? is there a need for the e in there?

Ruinel · 09-07-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
we speak? is there a need for the e in there?

I was trying for the -ing ending, as in 'we speaking'? but I guess that didn't come out right.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-07-2003, 04:30 PM

Oh, "us speaking". Quetealme. I get what you were saying, but I don't know what you mean.

Ruinel · 09-07-2003, 10:12 PM

-lme is either us or we, right?

So I was trying to ask... are we still speaking? ... But sort of short hand.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-08-2003, 08:24 PM

Tancave! Haryan estel quetalme. Laa istan man quete, le? Naas i yesse 'school'o. Uu-melin 'teacher'nya rÃ©nalestie.

RÃ©nalestie is a word I invented for geometry. It comes from (not surprisingly) to measure land. Lesta= to measure, rÃ©na= border, and I put lesta in a gerund form. It's very clumsy and has a lot of syllables. I could have done measure land, but it doesn't work as well.

Wayfarer · 09-08-2003, 10:03 PM

Yay for original thought!

But I wonder: Couldn't you have used 'measured shapes' (lestievenwÃ«)? I would think that applies more to geometry.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 09-09-2003, 05:52 PM

Thank you!True, but geometry comes from Latin land (geo, sounds like geography) and to measure (metry sounds like measure). Or according to Dictionary.com.
Shape, cut is venwÃ«. Venwelestie, nice sounding.

08-26-2003, 09:02 AM	#421
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	No, that is not quite normal. Of Galadriel wouldn't work, Galadrielo, or would it? For some reason I think you would have to double the L, and then it would mean from Galadriel. More common would be CelebrÃan, yelde Galadriel. That would literally be CelebrÃan, daughter Galadriel. I don't think an 'of' is necessary. Plus, wouldn't the Elves know who Galadriel's daughter was, and would only use this phrase as a title? __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

08-27-2003, 03:48 PM	#423
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	So suppose somebody wishes to refer to CelebrÃan as Galadriel's daughter, then that person could say either CelebrÃan yelde Galadriel or CelebrÃ*an Galadriello? __________________ We are not things.

08-27-2003, 08:47 PM	#424
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Oh no, sorry my miscommunication. One would use *CelebrÃan yelde Galadriel**, and not the other one. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

08-28-2003, 04:15 AM	#425
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Ah, I see. Thanks. __________________ We are not things.

09-03-2003, 06:41 PM	#427
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	I already translated that so, my guess: Finrod Felagund? my knowledge of Tolkien is far from sterling, but you love him apparently, and I think he awoke at Cuiveinen. Or is that Thingol? Yes, it is. Well, Thingol, Finrod, Galadriel. My guesses. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

08-26-2003, 06:28 PM	#422
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	Elves do not use possessive words when referring to their children. That is something you have to remember.

09-04-2003, 11:28 AM	#429
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	CelebrÃan* and Galadriel are Sindarin in any case. Narn i ChÃ®n HÃºrin 'Tale of the Children of HÃºrin' seems to imply that the simple word order genitive might be permissable to denote a similar familial relationship. Perhaps then sell Galadriel might do for 'daughter of Galadriel' ~ using Ardalambion's current suggested Sindarin wordlist sell (or iell) 'daughter' In Quenya the genitive case is seen with familial relationships. Note expert Helge Fauskanger's example i arano yondor 'the King's sons'. Of possible interest: at the time Tolkien wrote the Shibboleth of Feanor Quenya Altariel is said (therein) to be a 'Quenyarized' form of Telerin AlatÃ¡riel(le), though its true form would have been Ã‘altariel Â¤ Last edited by cian : 09-04-2003 at 11:38 AM.

09-04-2003, 06:40 PM	#430
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Galadriel, (Aalatariel or ~Nalataringe^lle I think) was Noldor. Earniel didn't specify a language. I need to pick up Sindarin! Love the mutations!Thanks very much for you insights, though! __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

09-06-2003, 12:31 PM	#432
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	yes, altariel is a shorter, commoner form. whoops, didnt read the whole post. wont do that again __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

09-06-2003, 07:48 PM	#433
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	ehem.... quetaelme?

09-06-2003, 11:49 PM	#434
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	we speak? is there a need for the e in there? __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

09-07-2003, 04:30 PM	#436
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Oh, "us speaking". Quetealme. I get what you were saying, but I don't know what you mean. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

09-07-2003, 10:12 PM	#437
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	-lme is either us or we, right? So I was trying to ask... are we still speaking? ... But sort of short hand.

09-08-2003, 08:24 PM	#438
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Tancave! Haryan estel quetalme. Laa istan man quete, le? Naas i yesse 'school'o. Uu-melin 'teacher'nya rÃ©nalestie. RÃ©nalestie is a word I invented for geometry. It comes from (not surprisingly) to measure land. Lesta= to measure, rÃ©na= border, and I put lesta in a gerund form. It's very clumsy and has a lot of syllables. I could have done measure land, but it doesn't work as well. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

09-08-2003, 10:03 PM	#439
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Yay for original thought! But I wonder: Couldn't you have used 'measured shapes' (lestievenwÃ«)? I would think that applies more to geometry. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 09-08-2003 at 10:12 PM.

09-09-2003, 05:52 PM	#440
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Thank you!True, but geometry comes from Latin land (geo, sounds like geography) and to measure (metry sounds like measure). Or according to Dictionary.com. Shape, cut is venwÃ«. Venwelestie, nice sounding. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

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