Discussion Thread number 2 Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Butterbeer]

aye, TD is coming into his own.

will khamul and Ai both think he (UDU) has devised this interuption / potential polite confrontation himself?? what are the differing implications to both players?

The khamul mind probe and arch-chancellor's message, were well handled TD

Nice set up there CS


Gor: i can see no real reason to have Valandil edit it ... for one thing we now know it was Khamul that 'suggested' marty ask about the ring ... he must have seen a plain ring on Val's hand any number of times ... .. surely the High King has many... it was an exciting moment with no rpg problems that i can see.

where is the problem???

Sure, i agree on the "silence'' either edit it or have it as Mr O ... but ONLY to do so, so as it does not ridicule the morgul lord's character ... you must remember we know of his character in deeper depth from the future (the once and future king, almost ) i.e. his development in the fellowship and it's discussion thread, not all here have read that:

he is ultimately calculating and can be patient, he weighs things to a nicety, and would not risk exposure by shouting "silence, he reads " when the very reason for this is that the subject of the mind probing IS reading: therefore an incredibly niave and stupid shout from all angles of viewing: also one that implies a deliberate and team effort...

ergo: NOT a shout from the Morgul Captain.


other than that i think it all can stand ... everyone has worked it in rather well and it is all good!

EDIT

A BAD mistake Greywolf, have your Buzzard try to kill a Lord of the Air, especially in front of so many witnesses, including the Lord of the squirrels and many GOP Owls.... not to mention hundreds of very excitable tortoises ...

I hope you have other characters, because the Buzzard is a goner, ere ten minutes will pass. The whole of the Guild of predators of Tharbad will defend one of their lords ...

[Rían]

Re: ring - Yes, the jewels were small, but I get the impression they were very noticeable, from the way Beren held it up to protect himself from the Elven archers of Nargothrond, too.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

will khamul and Ai both think he (UDU) has devised this interuption / potential polite confrontation himself?? what are the differing implications to both players?

Khamul will ALWAYS blame Udu, I think. Aiwendis is most grateful to him for saving her from tete-a-tete with Khamul.

Did you like my story of the suddenly bolting horse, killing Khamul's predecessor?

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Gor: i can see no real reason to have Valandil edit it ... for one thing we now know it was Khamul that 'suggested' marty ask about the ring ... he must have seen a plain ring on Val's hand any number of times ... .. surely the High King has many... it was an exciting moment with no rpg problems that i can see.

This time I was not asking Val to edit, not at all. Not yet at least.
I asked him to explain what ring Marty meant.

If it was NOT the Ring of Barahir, then I shall have to edit my post and TD his. If it WAS the Ring of Barahir, perhaps Marty could describe it as
" ...but having no great stone"

"where is the problem???"
The problem is that hearing about "a plain ring without a stone, several nazgul, who should know such things, thought about the Ring of Barahir - it never can be described as plain. Most likely it is MY problem (and TD's), not Val's

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Sure, i agree on the "silence'' either edit it or have it as Mr O ... but ONLY to do so, so as it does not ridicule the morgul lord's character ... you must remember we know of his character in deeper depth from the future (the once and future king, almost ) i.e. his development in the fellowship and it's discussion thread, not all here have read that:

he is ultimately calculating and can be patient, he weighs things to a nicety, and would not risk exposure by shouting "silence, he reads " when the very reason for this is that the subject of the mind probing IS reading: therefore an incredibly niave and stupid shout from all angles of viewing: also one that implies a deliberate and team effort...

ergo: NOT a shout from the Morgul Captain.

I again agree with every word, BB!

Valandil, as the minder of the Morgul Lord I ask Your Majesty to edit your post #246. Please!

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Khamul will ALWAYS blame Udu, I think. Aiwendis is most grateful to him for saving her from tete-a-tete with Khamul.

Did you like my story of the suddenly bolting horse, killing Khamul's predecessor?


This time I was not asking Val to edit, not at all. Not yet at least.
I asked him to explain what ring Marty meant.

If it was NOT the Ring of Barahir, then I shall have to edit my post and TD his. If it WAS the Ring of Barahir, perhaps Marty could describe it as
" ...but having no great stone"

"where is the problem???"
The problem is that hearing about "a plain ring without a stone, several nazgul, who should know such things, thought about the Ring of Barahir - it never can be described as plain. Most likely it is MY problem (and TD's), not Val's


I again agree with every word, and as the minder of the Morgul Lord ask Val to edit.

yeah, i particularly liked the very public setting that this unfortunate 'chance' accident happened

as for the ring, maybe you should re-read it?

the implication to the suddenly very interested listeners was it fitted the description of the One .. which was great writing, twas the arch-chanceller himself i beleive (without checking) that told khamul he was referring to the ring of barahir, not the one!

and what marty said was " he has a plain ring" ... surely he probably does ... so where is the problem? to me it was an excellent episode ...

the ring of barahir is an extremely valuable heirloom and extremely well kept, and even marty may never have seen it, thus in all probability an innocent mistake by Marty ... he was after all being mind prompted first by Mr O and then by Khamul ....

thus the captain being the most adept at reading both minds and situations correctly gauged that marty was erronously thinking of the ring of barahir when he had seen another plain ring....

sorry, i thought you were asking val to redit that bit, not the completely justifiable bit re: the infamous Shout.

best BB

[Gordis]

Well, BB, I don't care much about the Ring of Barahir, I was only afraid I made a blunder myself, as I forgot about the tiny emeralds in it.

But I do care about the shout!

[Butterbeer]

to be clear then , there is no problem if we take it marty like virtually all but valandil and maybe some very trusted others had never seen the ring of Barahir .. and mistook it for a plainer elven ring the heirs of the faithful had acquired as heirlooms over the years ... in this case it all fits perfectly ... and the deliberate confusion merely adds to the situation and the story...

Plus marty has been drunk and is sobering, but also being stongly manipulated by first Mr O (as a fatefully bad idea distraction away from Estelmo) and then Khamul (Mr o being the strange presence Khamul felt there but did not know....)

heh, it's all good!

I rest the case for the defence!

best BB

EDIT:

just seen your post above:
cool, yeah i back you totally on the shout, what's the best remedy, have Mr O do it? ( i ain't givin' no chocolate frogs back mind!)

or maybe even have Val shout silence! (without the "he reads" bit) ... that'd be a good coup for him personally...

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

cool, yeah i back you totally on the shout, what's the best remedy, have Mr O do it? ( i ain't givin' no chocolate frogs back mind!)

or maybe even have Val shout silence! (without the "he reads" bit) ... that'd be a good coup for him personally...

In Val's place I would have changed it to: "Suddenly there was total silence".

[Udukhaturz]

Lotesse - it will be good when you get situated and can get back to regular posting.

CS - I really liked your addition of the MM's. I do not think that Udu likes them very much, though.

TD - Khamul keeps improving. Great character development.

Willow - Do not think that Udu has not forgotten about you. He is just waiting for an opportunity. I wonder why he wants that triangular shaped house on the corner, with the large, spacious cellar? Probably nothing more than more room to store wine.

Gordis - That was great about the "unfortunate accident" that befell the former professor.

BB - Do not forget about that drink sometime with Maethor.

Val - Yes, an odd thing did happen to that family who lived in that house in the corner. Not quite sure what it was. Some said they heard "strange voices in their heads" and began having hideous nightmares. Others said it was some plague that had stricken them quickly. Others said that the place had become haunted by a wandering spirit.

The roleplay just keeps getting better. Great posts, everyone!

[Lotesse]

I'm making my way backward through the story posts, and I don't have much time tonight as time on this coffeehouse computer is money - it's bloody expensive! but I am wondering out loud here again - what's with all the constant mind reading and mind/though blocking and planted suggestions etcetera? One thing I can say is that Viniglaen is NOT easy to penetrate even by individuals such as Khamul & the Chancellor; and as for men & elves, forget it. They would get no where trying to read her mind, it would be a brick wall. Personally, I get fed up with the constand mind games; in my opinion it feels just plain rude, if nothing else, and unless one was evil anyway and therefore had an agenda, or was like the King or the King's chief advisor/bodyguard or whatever, then why rudely probe everyone's mind? To me it just smacks of bad manners, REALLY bad manners, unless it is an absolute necessity like I said above.

But this is just one girl's opinion. It just disturbs me, for some reason, this relentless head-trip stuff in our story. Not bad reading, or anything, but it just doesn't feel right.

[Lotesse]

And now I gotta log off again, so SOON dammit. Man oh man, I can NOT wait to be settled with my OWN home computer again! I fear I'l NEVER be able to keep abreast of the RPG. It bugs me SO much, not being able to contribute and Moot like I am used to. I miss it so much. Ciao 4 now, everyone...

[Willow Oran]

Personally, I get fed up with the constand mind games; in my opinion it feels just plain rude, if nothing else, and unless one was evil anyway and therefore had an agenda, or was like the King or the King's chief advisor/bodyguard or whatever, then why rudely probe everyone's mind? To me it just smacks of bad manners, REALLY bad manners, unless it is an absolute necessity like I said above.

I agree whole heartedly, which is why I established in my second or third post that Mahtaliel is in fact actively shielding against other minds. I believe I explicitly said that she views probing other people's minds as exceedingly impolite.

And since the other people who are doing the mind reading and what not are the nazgul and the King and his chief advisor, there should be no problem with it.

[Rían]

I agree with Lotesse and Willow with the mind reading thing. Rpg-Rian realizes it's going on (hence her comment to rpg-Earniel) but is just not interested in it ("The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth." to quote Gildor from LoTR). She can shield her mind and will not be read by anyone.

And how are people knowing who is trying to read their minds? Mind-reading caller ID? (joke! but also a good question, too - how do you know who's trying to get in?)

Anyway, I guess whoever wants to, go ahead, but my character's mind will not be read

[Rían]

Willow, let me (or Earniel) know if you would like Rian and Earniel to walk over and start a conversation with Mahtaliel ... or come over and start one yourself!

[Rían]

(I didn't mean to be nit-picky about the ring, but "his is plainer, and has no stone," just doesn't seem to match the ring of Barahir! which sounds very intricate and has Noldor-made gems, but as you guys said, it could just be kind of a general-conversation-confusion type of thing.)

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

EDIT

A BAD mistake Greywolf, have your Buzzard try to kill a Lord of the Air, especially in front of so many witnesses, including the Lord of the squirrels and many GOP Owls.... not to mention hundreds of very excitable tortoises ...

I hope you have other characters, because the Buzzard is a goner, ere ten minutes will pass. The whole of the Guild of predators of Tharbad will defend one of their lords ...

The Buzzard Buteo will be held accountable at the Commital Hearing of the Sub-commitee On Misdemeanors And Misconduct on Monday 12.00 CET.

Meanwhile I will try to introduce other characters not fully so prone to attack lead characters.

[Valandil]

Yes - I meant the Ring of Barahir - and sorry about my mistake - I'll go correct that.

I still don't see why it's such a big deal about the 'Silence' shout, either way - I'll have to re-think a bit before I re-work that post though, because all that fit together. But if it's just to fit all the rest of us into the mold of however you Nazgul players have been playing them in other games, set 3000 years in the future - I hardly think that's fair - because it expects us to read every one of those games as well.

One thing on the 'probing' though - could one Nazgul have made it seem like they were 'probing from multiple directions' or something?

And... as I said before, I also agree that we don't want to over-do the mind-reading part.

Also - for those who might get the wrong idea about Estelmo - he's not a total fool, if a bit jolly. After well over 100 years in the House of Isildur (about 170 if you count the time after Isildur), he has probably learned a bit about how to 'protect' himself. Those who underestimate him might just regret it...

[Willow Oran]

Willow, let me (or Earniel) know if you would like Rian and Earniel to walk over and start a conversation with Mahtaliel ... or come over and start one yourself!

Theoretically she's having a conversation with Marty at the moment and it would be rather rude of her just to walk away from it, but the two of you are welcome to come and join it. It looks like you'll all have her as a teacher of at least one class, so you have every reason to do so.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I still don't see why it's such a big deal about the 'Silence' shout, either way - I'll have to re-think a bit before I re-work that post though, because all that fit together. But if it's just to fit all the rest of us into the mold of however you Nazgul players have been playing them in other games, set 3000 years in the future - I hardly think that's fair - because it expects us to read every one of those games as well.

Nobody is asking you to read any other game log, Val.

However, the RPG’s are played along certain rules. Here we allow players to post not only for their own character, but for the other player’s characters as well. I believe it is for the creator/minder of the character to decide whether what was posted by other players corresponds with his/her view of their own character.

I believe, you realise that making the Chancellor shout "SILENCE, he reads", you are posting for MY character.

For instance, it I write in my next post that "Val dragged Aiwendis in a corner and kissed her passionately to the hoots and claps of all the guests", you will ask me to edit, I believe. You will say it is out of the King’s character. And I will be OBLIGED to do so.
I don’t see why you should have more rights to meddle with my character than I have with yours.

That is my view of the matter. No offence meant.

[Earniel]

Except that Val didn't say in his post that it was the Chancellor who shouted "Silence!" The way the post stands now, it is simply a mystery.

About the Ring of Barahir, anyone else noticed how complicated that design really is? I've actually been wondering whole day how they could possibly get all that on one ring.

[Gordis]

RE: RINGS

I have thought on the matter and I realised that the One Ruling Ring also hardly could be described as "plain" here in this RPG.

First of all, who at the beginning of the Third Age has actually SEEN the Ruling Ring? Sauron made it in Mordor, in SA 1600 and has never SHOWN it to Celebrimbor or the other Elven Smiths.

So, Earniel has no idea at all what the One Ring looks like.

The nazgul saw the Ring many times, no doubt, on Sauron's hand. BUT the Ring worn by Sauron was hot, the FIERY LETTERS SHINING BRIGHTLY.
The nazgul have never seen the cold, masterless Ring. How were they to know that the fiery letters would ever disappear?
For all the nazgul know, the Ruling Ring is unmistakable! Hardly to be described as "plain elven Ring"

Valandil could have been told about the ring by Elrond. Or maybe he has not even heard of it existence?

Elrond has seen the One only once, at the very moment when Isildur took it. At this time, the Ring was hot and the fiery letters with the Ring-spell were plain to see.
So IF Val knows anything at all, he would believe the same as the nazgul.

Estelmo has hardly seen the Ring, I believe.
Orethurion? If he left for Arnor right after he end of the War, the ring was still hot when he left.

So, I believe, NOBODY living or undead in our story would think of the One Ring as a plain golden band.