Evidence for Evolution - Page 22

Count Comfect · 10-05-2005, 09:41 PM

I'm not SAYING it is right. Frankly, and personally, I believe in God. I spent last morning in synagogue. But I'm saying that you can't argue along the lines of "theism has many solutions, atheism has only one" because sheer number of solutions is no proof of correctness.

And how about agnosticism? that is what science is: agnostic. It does not say there is no god it says god's existence is unproven. Until it is proven, we must go on the assumption god does not act, or else we are assuming an unproven god.

Curubethion · 10-05-2005, 09:42 PM

If you believe in God, why would you support atheistic evolution?

(Did I miss a post in this thread? I do believe theistic evolution is possible)

**Nurvingiel** · 10-05-2005, 09:43 PM

I agree. Atheism is not science. It's a world view of non-theism. (Religions that have a number of equal gods are also atheistic IIRC. I believe there is a sect of Buddhism like this.)

That's why I said religion and evolution are mutually exclusive. Replace "religion" with "world view" and this statement makes more sense.

I think a person's world view does affect what scientific beliefs they do or do not hold, but the former does not determine the latter (or vice versa).

Count Comfect · 10-05-2005, 09:45 PM

I believe in agnostic evolution. That is, I believe in God. However, scientifically I do not consider God's existence proven - my belief in God is based on faith, which is unscientific. For this reason, see my bold statements above, I believe we must, scientifically go on the assumption there is no god, because is there is a god, the processes that act are the same, except that god might tinker with them, while if there is no god and you assume there is, you're in for a nasty shock about your results.

P.S. Nurv, you don't mean mutually exclusive. That would mean they can't exist at the same time! You mean, I think, that they are NOT mutually exclusive - one does not force the other's hand.

Curubethion · 10-05-2005, 09:46 PM

You can't prove everything...I think there was a movie about that, maybe several...

**Nurvingiel** · 10-05-2005, 09:46 PM

While I largely agree with you, I think that the existence or non-existence of God does not affect scientific theory. IOW, either way, the theory remains the same (for example, ToE).

Count Comfect · 10-05-2005, 09:49 PM

Which you are you referring to, Nurv? This is why I use names

I agree that the ToE is the same with or without god. I'm saying that you can't plug god into a scientific theory since god's existence is unproven.

***RÃan*** · 10-05-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

P.S. Nurv, you don't mean mutually exclusive. That would mean they can't exist at the same time! You mean, I think, that they are NOT mutually exclusive - one does not force the other's hand.

Yeah, I was trying to come up with the right term for that, too - there's some other term floating on the edge of my brain, but can't remember it now

Spock · 10-06-2005, 12:11 PM

you might be interested in a new book

http://www.thbookservice.com/product...r_cd=THE048201

**Nurvingiel** · 10-06-2005, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

P.S. Nurv, you don't mean mutually exclusive. That would mean they can't exist at the same time! You mean, I think, that they are NOT mutually exclusive - one does not force the other's hand.

Yeah, I was trying to come up with the right term for that, too - there's some other term floating on the edge of my brain, but can't remember it now

You're right Count, thanks. I'm looking for the term that means 'one can exist without the other, and the existence of one doesn't affect the other'.

rohirrim TR · 10-06-2005, 04:57 PM

a non symbiotic relationship

Lotesse · 10-06-2005, 07:57 PM

Spock · 10-06-2005, 08:08 PM

oh, you're gonna get it for that one, fer sure

Insidious Rex · 10-06-2005, 09:24 PM

Nah theyll just ignore it. Like they did the six or eight other things I mentioned before that dont make any sense. Or else theyll say well they could find a use for them some day. Who are we to say...

Lotesse · 10-06-2005, 09:29 PM

They're conveniently ignoring the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" one I put in the Gays, Lesbians & Bi thread, as well.

Count Comfect · 10-06-2005, 10:45 PM

Nurv - "independent"?

Lotesse - I love that comic. The author is from my hometown

**Nurvingiel** · 10-06-2005, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

Nurv - "independent"?

Lotesse - I love that comic. The author is from my hometown

Yes! They are indepentent. That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks.

Lotesse, that comic is hilarious!

Lotesse · 10-07-2005, 12:35 AM

Thanx, Count & Nurvi! But still, we haven't heard back from those-who-would-take-issue. Patiently waiting...

***RÃan*** · 10-07-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Nah theyll just ignore it. Like they did the six or eight other things I mentioned before that dont make any sense. Or else theyll say well they could find a use for them some day. Who are we to say...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

They're conveniently ignoring the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" one I put in the Gays, Lesbians & Bi thread, as well.

Y'know what, guys, in my book, this "they'll ignore it" thing is a bit of a low blow

and I'm pretty saddened and disappointed to hear it from you guys. Since when have I ignored anything? I may have missed some things, since these threads move at the speed of light sometimes, but honestly, when have I ever avoided any question?

I just get on after a long hard day, and I see this?! Really disappointing.

And you know what?! I'll go ahead and answer the nipple thing RIGHT NOW, darn it, 'cause I'm really upset about that [can't call it what I want to call it because it would get edited out by a mod] and false charge against my integrity, and against the integrity of those who have been offering thoughtful and considerate discussion on the same side as I'm on. Ya know why men have nipples? My husband got away for a "long lunch" today - we've been looking foward to it all week, because things are not as easy with kids around! - and darn it! they're FUN!!!! That's why!!!

(and I was embarassed to DEATH a few hours later when my daughter came home and discovered some fun things I accidentally left in the bathroom! I had to come up with some very creative explanations about what they were!

)

So let's treat each other as the friends we are, and please, no more of these comments. I just saw the nipple thing FOR THE FIRST TIME a few minutes ago, and I saw the "do unto others" thing a while back but didn't feel like responding right then because it would have involved pointing out hypocrisies I see on YOUR side

Please, let's treat each other with respect and kindness.

***RÃan*** · 10-07-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Thanx, Count & Nurvi! But still, we haven't heard back from those-who-would-take-issue. Patiently waiting...

you got your answer

I think rpg-Rian might turn her horse around and ride away in search of Gondolin ...

10-05-2005, 09:41 PM	#421
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	I'm not SAYING it is right. Frankly, and personally, I believe in God. I spent last morning in synagogue. But I'm saying that you can't argue along the lines of "theism has many solutions, atheism has only one" because sheer number of solutions is no proof of correctness. And how about agnosticism? that is what science is: agnostic. It does not say there is no god it says god's existence is unproven. Until it is proven, we must go on the assumption god does not act, or else we are assuming an unproven god. __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

10-05-2005, 09:42 PM	#422
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	If you believe in God, why would you support atheistic evolution? (Did I miss a post in this thread? I do believe theistic evolution is possible) __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to meâ€”when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen yearsâ€”that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

10-05-2005, 09:45 PM	#424
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	I believe in agnostic evolution. That is, I believe in God. However, scientifically I do not consider God's existence proven - my belief in God is based on faith, which is unscientific. For this reason, see my bold statements above, I believe we must, scientifically go on the assumption there is no god, because is there is a god, the processes that act are the same, except that god might tinker with them, while if there is no god and you assume there is, you're in for a nasty shock about your results. P.S. Nurv, you don't mean mutually exclusive. That would mean they can't exist at the same time! You mean, I think, that they are NOT mutually exclusive - one does not force the other's hand. __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. Last edited by Count Comfect : 10-05-2005 at 09:46 PM.

10-05-2005, 09:46 PM	#425
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	You can't prove everything...I think there was a movie about that, maybe several... __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to meâ€”when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen yearsâ€”that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

10-05-2005, 09:49 PM	#427
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	Which you are you referring to, Nurv? This is why I use names I agree that the ToE is the same with or without god. I'm saying that you can't plug god into a scientific theory since god's existence is unproven. __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

10-06-2005, 12:11 PM	#429
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	you might be interested in a new book http://www.thbookservice.com/product...r_cd=THE048201 __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

10-06-2005, 07:57 PM	#432
Lotesse of the House of FÃ«anor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	__________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-06-2005, 08:08 PM	#433
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	oh, you're gonna get it for that one, fer sure __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

10-06-2005, 09:24 PM	#434
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Nah theyll just ignore it. Like they did the six or eight other things I mentioned before that dont make any sense. Or else theyll say well they could find a use for them some day. Who are we to say... __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

10-06-2005, 09:29 PM	#435
Lotesse of the House of FÃ«anor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	They're conveniently ignoring the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" one I put in the Gays, Lesbians & Bi thread, as well. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-06-2005, 10:45 PM	#436
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	Nurv - "independent"? Lotesse - I love that comic. The author is from my hometown __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

10-07-2005, 12:35 AM	#438
Lotesse of the House of FÃ«anor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Thanx, Count & Nurvi! But still, we haven't heard back from those-who-would-take-issue. Patiently waiting... __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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