What people think of Two Towers (*SPOILERS*)

[Huan]

Um, I really don't think that Aragorn died there. He was just waterlogged and really banged up from falling of a cliff. He was near death. But I don't think Arwen actually had to resurrect him. In fact, though her weird metaphysical mojo astral form kisses him, she doesn't even seem to heal him. She just summons a kneeling licking horse for him. I don't know why I'm trying to clarify the worst scene in the movie.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I'd agree with Huan that it's the worst scene if it weren't for the overdone excorcism with Theoden. . .

. . .but anyway, I didn't think Aragorn was dead there, just, as Huan said, close to death, waterlogged, beaten up and really tired.

[crickhollow]

I don't know...I think the dying complex that Frodo had in the first movie got passed on to Aragorn for the second. Eowyn will probably have it in the third, as almost dying once just won't be good enough for PJ--he'll make sure there are at least three near-death experiences for her.

[cassiopeia]

I agree, I don't think Aragorn died. It seems silly that an elf could bring the dead back to life. That means all elves could do it. Hey, maybe Haldir lives! I cringe at this scene, like I cringe at the wizard fight and crazy Galadriel in the FOTR.

[Black Breathalizer]

The Aragorn-Arwen scene is one of the most dramatic and emotional scenes in the movie. It's mindboggling to me that so many of you didn't "get it" and didn't appreciate it.

1. Aragorn was not dead so Arwen didn't bring him back from the dead. Aragorn was badly hurt but Arwen didn't heal him either.

2. The point of the scene was to visually and emotionally communicate how POWERFUL and MOTIVATING A FORCE the love between Aragorn and Arwen was to them. Part one: We are shown that where a normal man might have given up and died on the river bank, Aragorn used his love for Arwen to drive him on through physical pain and exhaustion. Part two: We watch Elrond painting an realistic but bleak future for Arwen in an effort to keep her from sacrificing her immortality for a mortal man. Yet Arwen steadfastly believes "there is still hope."

3. Through the words and actions of both Aragorn and Arwen, Jackson continues to highlight one of the trilogy's basic themes: There is always hope in the face of despair.

[Lizra]

Ahhh! Young (or not so young in this case!) love! I saw the scene the same as you, Black Breathalizer. I also liked the Theoden "breaking free of the age spell" thing. I'm not sure, did Tolkien infer that Wormounge merely talked Theoden into thinking he was a doddering old fool, or was "magic" involved. Was Wormtounge, (and for that matter Saruman) merely an exceedingly gifted, eloquent and persuasive speaker, or were magic spells used. I can go either way for my entertainment!

[durin's bane]

I think Saruman gave Wormtongue the power to persuade people with speech, like Saruman could. Using that magic, Wormtongue was able to make Theoden think that he was nothing, and therefore, nearly reducing him to a feeble old man.

At least I think so. My theories aren't exactly the most logical ones...(like Aragorn's death for instance...I still think he died...but that's probably because I'm just stupid )

[Elfmaster XK]

Okay, i have only just seen TTT for the first time. I have been away from the 'moot for that reason. But i have a few things to say that have probably aleady been said, and/or no on else cares about.

THEY KILLED HALDIR!!! THEY KILLED HIM!!! *Throws fit* How COULD they...

Sorry for the outburst.

I used to like Faramir. Did PJ even read the book? I know and understand the need for movie changes. But still....i feel i'll go away and form a coherent, non-expletive filled post...

[azalea]

First, I thought that the Arwen kiss thing was something that happened earlier in Rivendell when they were parting, and they were just hearkening back to it. IOW, the time came when he needed the grace of the Valar to protect him, so her kissing him was symbolic of that happening.
Secondly, Grima used both "magic" and the power of words combined to keep Theoden "down." I think Grima's father was also some kind of sorcerer; I'll have to go look.

[Nurvingiel]

I do not understand the need for these drastic changes! TTT is my favourite book, and I felt that key characters were horribly maligned (Frodo, Gimli and Faramir), and some scenes were added unnecessarily for sensationalist action scenes. (The Warg battle with the cliff thing, for example.) (I already raged about Haldir's death in a different thread, so I won't continue that here. See -> I'm Disgusted .)

In TTT movie-Frodo tries to give the Ring to a Nazgul!?!?! PJ made him cave in to the Ring's powers way too soon. I feel that he should be portrayed as a tough leader, more like book-Frodo.

Gimli = comic relief!? And since when can he not keep up with Aragorn running accross Rohan!? Nufff said.

Movie-Faramir is also diminished from the book. Book-Faramir is tempted by the Ring, but he resists, and lets Frodo go. Movie-Faramir sucks, and insists the Ring goes to Gondor! Apparently, PJ wanted his temptation to be more dramatic before actually letting him go. Why was that necessary!? The book had an amazing plot, no need to change it!

Because the whole Warg battle was made up by PJ, it didn't stitch in very well with the actual book plot. I'm okay with additional scenes for cinematic purposes, I'm not so much of a purist that I don't expect this to happen a bit. So I could accept the Warg battle... until Aragorn fell off a cliff!? I don't care if he died or not, but this action of Aragorn being seperated from the group and all that was just too much. I don't mind the Arwen-dream so much, simply because I'm so thankful she's not actually in the movie.

The movie stands alone as great entertainment, I highly enjoyed watching it. The only trouble is, the movie does not stand alone. It has the integrity of the book to uphold, and it fails completely at several points. This is an unfortunate mistake that could have been avoided. It's okay to change scenes, the order of the timeline etc. as long as the spirit of the plot and characters is maintained.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by azalea

Grima used both "magic" and the power of words combined to keep Theoden "down." I think Grima's father was also some kind of sorcerer; I'll have to go look.

Oooooh! I don't recall anything about Grima's father! Cool!
A sorcerer! How exciting! I like that kind of stuff! Hope you dig up something! (Where ?! LoTR?)

[legolasluvr2931]

Ok...I LOVED THE MOVIE!!!

I WAS better than the 1st one, i got to see more of Legolas!!

[Black Breathalizer]

It's sad that some posters publicly complain about the movie without really understanding the scenes they are complaining about.

A case in point:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I do not understand the need for these drastic changes! TTT is my favourite book, and I felt that key characters were horribly maligned (Frodo, Gimli and Faramir), and some scenes were added unnecessarily for sensationalist action scenes. In TTT movie-Frodo tries to give the Ring to a Nazgul!?!?! PJ made him cave in to the Ring's powers way too soon. I feel that he should be portrayed as a tough leader, more like book-Frodo.

First off, Nurvingiel, Frod does NOT try to give the ring to the Nazgul. If you pay attention, what is shown is Frodo deciding whether or not to put the ring on.

Second, PJ used this scene as a more dramatic interpretation of the SIMILAR SITUATION FROM THE BOOK where Frodo was spellbound by the Lord of the Nazgul as he led the army out of Minas Morgul and stopped on the bridge sensing something.

So this business of being portrayed "tougher" is ridiculous. PJ's TTT movie Frodo was a great interpretation of the book Frodo.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Lizra
Oooooh! I don't recall anything about Grima's father! Cool!
A sorcerer! How exciting! I like that kind of stuff! Hope you dig up something! (Where ?! LoTR?)

Ach, never mind. It must have been some wild imaginings. The only thing I could find about his father was his name.

[Lizra]

Well, It was a fun thought! Thanks for looking.

[TinuvielChild]

I'm waiting to pass judgement on movie-Faramir until I've seen RotK.


The Arwen death scene always makes me cringe. I've already stated why, and other people have posted reasons that I agree with, so I won't repeat myself.

[LuthienTinuviel]

It's sad that some posters publicly complain about the movie without really understanding the scenes they are complaining about.

oh, PLEASE let me drink form your vast wells of deep cool, refreshing knowledge! i have so much to benefit from the words, no, poetry that flows from your lips!



hahahhaa!

Second, PJ used this scene as a more dramatic interpretation .... blah blah blah

yes, more dramatic, like they say in texas, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. He had no reason to tamper with anything in TTT like that. TTT is already full of natural cliffhangers and suspense. You can't perfect perfection.

So this business of being portrayed "tougher" is ridiculous

no, your ridiculus.

things i agreed with. (10 bucks says you won't be able to remeber these two pages later )

I did like the Arwen/ Aragorn scenes, thought the one by the river, is my east favourite, i dislike other scenes more strongly than that one. in all truth, i don't think that it's that bad. i can see how we are supposed to realte to strong love conquring all and yada yada saving lives blah blah... and something something... along those lines.....

i thought the wargs were ok, i pictured them as darker, slightly larger wolves, like real wolves, canis lupis type.
haha puppies with add.. wouldn't that be ADHD? you have to get the hyperactivity in there too. Think about it, they did jump from thing to thing rather quickly.. haha

i loved how they showed the humanity in the elves this time, though they were still a bit cold for my taste.
having them show up at helms deep, really added a nice peice to the bit about how the elves have known that they were not going to be in the outcome of any of these ME wars, yet they still fight for the freedom. maybe i like this because i believe that the elves really did care alot for the mortals that they walked beside.

i love how the movie starts out.

i liked the scene in the gloden hall, given the general public's attentions spans and intelligence level, this was good, even though i would have liked it to be different, it was still good.

more later.

[Kalimac]

>>The only trouble is, the movie does not stand alone. It has the integrity of the book to uphold, and it fails completely at several points. <<

Only trouble here is that the movie . . just like the book The Two Towers . . is not over yet . . it's still the middle. Patience. Once we see all three parts as one long movie . . than would be the time to decided whether PJ failed in his attempt to bring Tolkien to the screen. You may not like what he has done in the TT because you have not yet seen where he intends to go . . and you won't know that until you see the end. One of the problems here is that just like the book . . which Tolkien considered to be one book . . not three . . the movies were all filmed at the same time . . PJ and cast have repeatedly stated they filmed LOtR as if it were one long movie. This is precedent setting . . it has never been done before so people basically do not know what to make of it.

Only other comment I might add is . . would you judge The Two Towers as a stand alone book . . would you be satisfied to reach the end of TTT . . and not go on to finish reading Return of the King? Is Tolkiens book, The Two Towers a complete work? Or does your opinion of the book rely on Fellowship and most of all, on the conclusion, Return of the King? So, too, must we look at these movies in the same light . .

This is all my humble opinion, of course . . but I'll wait for Return of the King.

[BeardofPants]

Ah BB. Please shut up.

[Arathorn]

I've seen it for the 3rd time yesterday after it finally opened officially in the local area. It got better and better for me after successive viewings.

Knowing the differences between the film and the book and learning new ones that others bring up is fun. It makes a good conversation piece in the new Tolkien group I joined and had coffee with after the the movie.

However, I think that I'd boycott ROTK and probably not watch TTT anymore if the above were not true in my case. I suggest that other people do the same and save their cash. It'll only get worse and evil PJ will only earn more.

There was this guy who posted months ago (I can't remember his name here) who's dad was a Tolkien scholar. He said that he hasn't and will never watch any of the films. Now that's a true purist.