Bush addresses the world- Pending War - Page 21

Dúnedain · 03-25-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Exactly. Read news from 'the other side' also, it's interesting. Put it together with what you hear from 'our side', and maybe you will find something resembling the truth in the middle.

lol yeah right, any truth coming from Al Jazeera is a pure overstatement. Considering the US and the coalition has thousands of outlets of news/media/whatever I am sure I can find truth in the middle through those...

Dunadan · 03-25-2003, 04:05 PM

Actually, Al-Jazeera has a relatively good reputation. They are hated by all of the monarchies and despots of the Arab world, which is a good sign. Just because the only time we hear of them is when the latest Bin Laden tape is being broadcast doesn't mean that they don't have any good sources or valid information.

Artanis · 03-25-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
lol yeah right, any truth coming from Al Jazeera is a pure overstatement. Considering the US and the coalition has thousands of outlets of news/media/whatever I am sure I can find truth in the middle through those...

Do I understand you right, if I say you trust news from the US and the coalition more than news from the Arab countries? Then I think you're terribly wrong. There is a psychological war going on in the media. Everything is filtered, on our side as well as theirs.

Lizra · 03-25-2003, 05:22 PM

I am quite relieved! I just found out that my old neighbor's son is stationed at a UN post in the area. His mom seemed to feel he should be fairly safe there! Who knows though! Still, that is such a relief to me!

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-25-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Do I understand you right, if I say you trust news from the US and the coalition more than news from the Arab countries? Then I think you're terribly wrong. There is a psychological war going on in the media. Everything is filtered, on our side as well as theirs.

I agree. Of course, I don't know for sure, but I'd bet my behind that neither side tells the absolute truth. As someone said earlier, Truth is the first casuality in a war.

EDIT: Glad to hear it, Lizra!

Artanis · 03-25-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
I am quite relieved! I just found out that my old neighbor's son is stationed at a UN post in the area. His mom seemed to feel he should be fairly safe there! Who knows though! Still, that is such a relief to me!

Glad to hear that Lizra.

I wonder, would I be pro-war if I knew my husband would be sent to Iraq to fight?

That's something to ponder over.

Dúnedain · 03-25-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Do I understand you right, if I say you trust news from the US and the coalition more than news from the Arab countries? Then I think you're terribly wrong. There is a psychological war going on in the media. Everything is filtered, on our side as well as theirs.

So you are telling me to believe them before I believe my own country? You are kidding right?

I know that there is psychological warfare going on, however, I still trust our media outlets a heck of a lot more than Al Jazeera, especially with some of the bs reports I've seen from them over the years...

Dúnedain · 03-25-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
I wonder, would I be pro-war if I knew my husband would be sent to Iraq to fight?

That's something to ponder over.

Yeah that is an interesting point, because I've seen both ends of that spectrum so far in this war. I've seen wives of soldiers at protests, which I find a bit extreme in my opinion. The reason I say that is because if I were fighting in the war and saw my wife protesting, I'd be hurt/mad/embarrassed all at the same time. Of course I completely understand the opinion, but to me it can run a bit deeper in a situation like that. I've also seen a friend of mine who's brother is over there with his sniper battalion. She is so staunchly for this war. Then also, I just saw an interview of a father of one of the American PoW's and he was saying how proud he is of his son and of the US. So it goes both ways, but I am sure it is something that you can only really decide on if you are in that position...

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elvellon
You are not reading it right, look:

“Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy: “

“Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces. “

Meaning that, under the Convention, there are three categories to whom the Convention applies, including volunteer corps, but not exclusively to them. This is obviously necessary since a substantial part of the armed forces of many countries are composed by "conscripts" (I mean persons that are doing their military obligation to their country, some of which may be doing so reluctantly).

maybe I did read it wrong. But we are handling the POWs in a respectful manner. Although it's going to be much harder with the tactics that some of the more loyal troops have taken. We have not broadcast any of the Iraqi captives on TV or even in the newspaper - I have NOT seen any Iraqi soldiers we have in custody except from a distance or from behind.

Quote:

It may also be interesting that I read in another site (in Portuguese) that it is understood that among the responsibilities of the captor it is included that of protecting the PoWs from retaliation from their own country, obviously an attempt to guarantee the safety of captured troops belonging to countries under tyrannical governments.

Which we are doing.

Quote:

I would like to point my perplexity by your desire of denying the status of PoWs to those troops, why do you wish to do so? As I pointed out, while it does constitute a minor violation, from it results greater good (saving lives and assuaging the Arabs).

Fortunately, as far as I know, nor your government nor the British government is trying to defend something like your theory. Imagine what would be the consequences of that among the public opinion of the Arab World.

I'm not denying the status of the POWs per se - I'm not denying the accusations that we aren't abiding by the GC.

Iraq is on record of raping our previous soldiers during 1991, as well as breaking their bones and torturing them. To think that similar atrocities are not going on now - is naive. Just because the latest soldiers have appeared on TV - is little confort. The soldiers in 1991 were also marched in front of the media as a "prize".

I can't recall from the GC - does it say that the soldiers can't be shown on TV at all??? or is it more that they can't be displayed as prizes like our troops were?

Artanis · 03-25-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
So you are telling me to believe them before I believe my own country? You are kidding right?

No I'm saying that news in a war, regardless its sources and origin, are biased and filtered. I'm saying that everything in the news, worldwide, in the US also, should be regarded with a critical eye. A good principle in general, but now more than ever.

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dunadan
Actually, Al-Jazeera has a relatively good reputation. They are hated by all of the monarchies and despots of the Arab world, which is a good sign. Just because the only time we hear of them is when the latest Bin Laden tape is being broadcast doesn't mean that they don't have any good sources or valid information.

Just because they are hated by the monarchies doesn't mean they're balanced. I know they report what they want and leave out other things. I havent seen anything from them - on their website or anything - that indicated that we were trying to get humanitarian aid into Iraq. That what has hampered us is that Hussein sent troops down to the port cities and destabalized the region again.

I've also seen many interviews with Al Jazeera reporters and some of their comments are laughable.

They would much rather show the US as the evil agressor than to show the atrocities of Saddam Hussein. So I wonder - who really has the interest of the civilians of the middle east in mind - the people who will let the torture and rapes go on in Iraq, turning a blind eye or the countires actually working to put a stop to it?

Remember - the reason we didn't finish the job was because the Arab League wanted Saddam to remain in power - knowing the attrocities he was committing against his people.

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
No I'm saying that news in a war, regardless its sources and origin, are biased and filtered. I'm saying that everything in the news, worldwide, in the US also, should be regarded with a critical eye. A good principle in general, but now more than ever.

There are tons of news sources out there available for citizens living in free countries to go to. It is in the news media's interest to at least not tell lies. If they are caught in a lie - it blows their credibility - which is their life blood. When Dateline was caught rigging a truck to blow up in order to demonstrate how - when it is hit in a certain way - it explodes, they lost an incredible amount of credibilty. It took them a long time to regain that. They had to convince people that they were not rigging there news stories to support their established beliefs.

Different news sites may broadcast the news in various ways, putting a different spin on it - but they better be getting their facts right.

Al Jazeera can still basically say what ever they want. People have a choice in the Arab world - watch Al Jazeera, government controlled media, or western media. Of course they'll watch Al Jazeera - but Al Jazeera really doesn't have any competition in the Arab world to make sure they keep their stories accurate. Who is going to come out and say they reported something incorrectly? The west, the goverments? The people trust neither - so that leaves Al Jazeera as the all knowing entity and are left to make sure they report things accurately.

Artanis · 03-25-2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
There are tons of news sources out there available for citizens living in free countries to go to. It is in the news media's interest to at least not tell lies. If they are caught in a lie - it blows their credibility - which is their life blood.
[snip]
Different news sites may broadcast the news in various ways, putting a different spin on it - but they better be getting their facts right.

I agree with that. We just have to figure out where the spin has been put in, and which facts they didn't tell us.

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
I agree with that. We just have to figure out where the spin has been put in, and which facts they didn't tell us.

Well there are tons of US news sources. I can watch FoxNews - they have one story, I can watch ABCNews and they'll have different things. I think by watching a selection of even just American news - you can get a pretty good picture of what it going on. Look at my edits in the above post for how Al Jazeera is still a monopoly and basically controls the Middle Eastern media - even though they do have that new competition channel that just came out.

Artanis · 03-25-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well there are tons of US news sources. I can watch FoxNews - they have one story, I can watch ABCNews and they'll have different things. I think by watching a selection of even just American news - you can get a pretty good picture of what it going on. Look at my edits in the above post for how Al Jazeera is still a monopoly and basically controls the Middle Eastern media - even though they do have that new competition channel that just came out.

I think you're saying exactly the same as I said, or tried to say, quoted by Dúnedain on the top of this page.

Lizra · 03-25-2003, 07:18 PM

This will probably sound stupid!

You'd think with all that oil money in the middle east, they'd have more news organizations and broadcasting stations!

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
This will probably sound stupid! You'd think with all that oil money in the middle east, they'd have more news organizations and broadcasting stations!

They live under totalitarian governments. The only reason why Al Jazeera came abotu was because one country decided to let a "free press" agency be started. i really can't remember which country it's located in - but they've been constantly requested by the other countries in the area to shut down Al Jazeera.

It really doesn't matter how much money a country has- all it takes it lack of freedom to prevent a free media - let alone all the other freedoms we enjoy in the west.

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
I think you're saying exactly the same as I said, or tried to say, quoted by Dúnedain on the top of this page.

I disagree with your statement here...

Quote:

Do I understand you right, if I say you trust news from the US and the coalition more than news from the Arab countries? Then I think you're terribly wrong. There is a psychological war going on in the media. Everything is filtered, on our side as well as theirs.

Unlike in the west - there is no competition in the Arab world to make sure Al Jazeera gets it right. It's as if there was only one newspaper in America - and it happened to be supported by socialists. How reliable would it be? Where would you go for the other news? I'm not saying that Al Jazeera doesn't report some things reliablly - but they have a definite anti-American slant. They don't report everything wrong of course. I am aware of the Iraqi's being killed - we just don't show it over and over again. When I see the little kids walking up to the soldiers - I hope that they'll be safe and nothing will happen to them.

Al Jazeera wants to present civilian casualities in a way that leads people to believe we are targeting Iraqis.

Lizra · 03-25-2003, 07:38 PM

I am so glad I'm a free person in a modern country! (Thankful, thankful, thankful!)

So what do they spend ALL that money on then?

jerseydevil · 03-25-2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
I am so glad I'm a free person in a modern country! (Thankful, thankful, thankful!) So what do they spend ALL that money on then?

Well the ruling parties own all the oil and everything - they spend it on jets, palaces and Rolls Royces.

03-25-2003, 05:22 PM	#404
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I am quite relieved! I just found out that my old neighbor's son is stationed at a UN post in the area. His mom seemed to feel he should be fairly safe there! Who knows though! Still, that is such a relief to me! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

03-25-2003, 07:18 PM	#416
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	This will probably sound stupid! You'd think with all that oil money in the middle east, they'd have more news organizations and broadcasting stations! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

03-25-2003, 07:38 PM	#419
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I am so glad I'm a free person in a modern country! (Thankful, thankful, thankful!) So what do they spend ALL that money on then? __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

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03-25-2003, 04:05 PM	#402
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	Actually, Al-Jazeera has a relatively good reputation. They are hated by all of the monarchies and despots of the Arab world, which is a good sign. Just because the only time we hear of them is when the latest Bin Laden tape is being broadcast doesn't mean that they don't have any good sources or valid information.