05-18-2006, 04:22 PM | #401 | |
Word Santa Claus
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05-18-2006, 04:38 PM | #402 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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05-18-2006, 05:04 PM | #403 | |
Quasi Evil
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Well looks like the repubs are looking to use the old gay marriage issue to their political benefit again... since they have nothing else that seems to be working...
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05-18-2006, 05:46 PM | #404 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-18-2006, 05:48 PM | #405 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Oh my gosh! We better re-elect all those Rubberstamp Congressmen or the Gays will turn our Holyland into another decadent Rome!!! Hurry!!! Our poll numbers are down!!! We need to stop the Gays from taking over!!!!
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05-18-2006, 07:53 PM | #406 | |
Word Santa Claus
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05-18-2006, 08:50 PM | #407 | ||
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A Constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage? Can you even do that?
I thought the states were responsible for marriage laws? Would this amendment not impinge upon state rights, and aren't those protected in the Constitution? And, obviously, what about gay rights? I can't believe this is a serious debate in the Senate. *dies a little inside*
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05-18-2006, 09:44 PM | #408 | |
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05-18-2006, 09:50 PM | #409 |
Elf Lord
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Societal mores are determined by each society - BrownJenkins.
So, let it go to a vote, better yet a plebescite. That would be democracy in its truest form. A state by state plebescite. EXCEPT, in reality as practiced by the pro-homosexual-"marriage" agendites, that won't work because the society is opposed to such (Remember Missouri!), so it has to be turned over to the elite - especially the courts, so the majority will can be thwarted. Justice suddenly has an absolute value to be appealed to against the society. God, the crash of inconsistency is a clanging cymbal and noisy gong, isn't it?
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05-18-2006, 09:52 PM | #410 | |
Elf Lord
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Nurv, In my earlier post (the one about disordered) I was making the point that the allegation about biological origins for homosexuality and destiny carried to its logical extreme biologically is a dead end. ASSISTED reproduction isn't sufficient to satisfy the urge to "marriage" amongst homosexuals AND it certainly isn't biological in any natural sense of reproduction. If you invoke biology (more an incantation than science as I have frequently been at pains to point out), you must be prepared to follow the argument. I know you don't like where it goes by your reaction. But, if sexuality is destiny, homosexuality is a biological dead end.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 05-18-2006 at 09:59 PM. |
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05-18-2006, 09:57 PM | #411 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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*slaps himself for being mean* Insemination, dear. Quote:
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05-18-2006, 10:19 PM | #412 |
Elf Lord
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at least Russia was communist/stalinist.
The nanny-state is much worse in the long run for "everything is for your good, dearie" and it keeps its nose out of nothing.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-19-2006, 08:45 AM | #413 |
Word Santa Claus
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Gonna disagree with you on that one, inked. I'd rather be alive in a "nanny-state" than killed in a Stalinist purge. Or alive in a gulag, come to that.
Nurv - the reason they'd need a constitutional amendment is that other constitutional guarantees don't outweigh constitutional language. So they can't pass a law banning gay marriage (because it'd violate states' rights) but if they pass an amendment it becomes just as much part of the constitution as any other bit; and since the states' rights are expressed as "you can do whatever this Constitution doesn't say you can't do" way, this amendment would do what it is supposed to.
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05-19-2006, 10:34 AM | #414 | |
Elven Warrior
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05-19-2006, 10:41 AM | #415 | |
Elven Warrior
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a) most children died b) children were your only means of support in your old age, not that many people reached that. Given current life-spans and infant mortality rates in developed countries, start doing the calculations if everybody had six-ten kids....disorder, anyone? |
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05-20-2006, 01:43 AM | #416 | ||||||||
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I agree with you in that we probably wouldn't disentangle 100%, however I think it would be beneficial to society to try. Quote:
For marriage to occur, the desire for children does not have to exist. Gay people are just as capable as straight people to marry. Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 05-20-2006 at 01:44 AM. Reason: to fix mangled sentence structure |
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05-22-2006, 12:59 AM | #417 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-22-2006, 01:01 AM | #418 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-22-2006, 02:12 AM | #419 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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(Christians aren't the only ones who believe gay marriage is wrong, but Christians form the bulk of Canadian society, which I will be discussing here.) The point here, for us liberal types, is that the laws of a country are determined by the people of that country, not by any one religion or any other kind of interest group. It would not be fair for marriage laws to be changed because people who advocate for gay rights believe this to be right. What is fair, is that gay rights activists can lobby their Members of Parliment to change a law. They can hold demonstrations, point to aspects of existing law that support their arguments, and go through the the Canadian judicial system to bring their case to the Supreme Court (if need be). Then, after reviewing the laws of the country, the Supreme Court might change the laws of that country. In Canada, gay marriage was made legal, and it is now up to the provinces to implement the law (I believe about half of our provinces and territories have done so). ((I'm not ignoring the world outside of Canada, I'm just keeping this post down to one judicial system so it's not too long to read.)) I don't believe what you're noticing is an inconsistency of what actual posters in this thread are saying, but rather, a misunderstanding between our two "sides". I don't believe that a majority should not dictate the rights of a minority. The minority should also not dictate the rights of the majority. That is not how the Canadian government works. Happily, legal gay marriages do not violate either of these ideas. The significant majority of Canadians justifiably do not want to see the Charter of Rights and Freedoms interfered with. This document prevents the implemetation of laws that violate our rights, and uphold the rights of all Canadians. It gives someone the right to say to the Parliment that they don't agree with a law, for example, if they didn't agree with the gay marriage law. Canadians also don't want to see our highest court (the federal Supreme Court) interfered with. The Supreme Court of Canada interpreted the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and determined it was a violation of the rights of gay people to not allow them to marry. The Parliment then enacted a law legalising gay marriage. This is not the result of the gay lobby forcing their agenda on the populace when it suits their needs, this is how our country works. If you don't like the new law, you can lobby the government with like-minded individuals to have it changed, as is your right, guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As you guys know by now, I love the Charter. I really, sincerely, love the Charter. I feel safe knowing that it exists. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say in this post, because it really means a lot to me.
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05-22-2006, 10:59 AM | #420 | |
Word Santa Claus
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Second, it is precisely for our most important issues that we should use the systems we have set up for the purpose of considering issues. By saying "major issues should just go to the full Senate regardless," one is implying that the system we have set up, with committee consideration preceding full Senate consideration, is alright for all but the big issues. But it is the big issues that we most need a system for. Third, Specter is basically shirking his duty; he is on the Judicial Committee (heck, he's the CHAIR of the Committee), which means the Senate has delegated to him the job of vetting proposals for it. By saying "actually, I won't do that, let the whole Senate decide," he's dodging that responsibility.
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