11-09-2002, 12:23 AM | #401 | |||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
No, sorry Leif and Rian, but we've been over this before.
Quote:
Quote:
Ideologies on the other hand... Quote:
I should have been more clear; I meant that atheism subscribes to the lack of belief in a higher authority. Ideologies are a set of belief systems... without the devotional aspect. At no point in my post did I want to specify that atheism was outside the realm of being a belief system. I hope I have made that more clear this time.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|||
11-09-2002, 12:41 AM | #402 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
I suppose you're right, we would have to slightly broaden the definition to label it as a religion. But you'd probably also have to broaden the definition of an Ideology to squeeze it into that category as well.
Meanwhile, we're agreed that it falls under the same catagory as religion in at least some respects. I think the title 'religion,' is irrelevant as to whether it is the same or not in the respect we're looking at. The point is that it is the same as religion in that it is utterly impossible to touch upon the truth of by any means in the physical realm. R*an, I have one question: Are you leading this somewhere? I can't see what the point is of establishing Atheism as a religion. Thanks for pointing out the similarity, though, I hadn't noticed it before you mentioned it. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-09-2002 at 01:01 AM. |
11-09-2002, 12:51 AM | #403 | |||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|||
11-09-2002, 12:52 AM | #404 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
re·li·gion Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. 1. 1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 2. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Religions have an inlaid belief in some sort of higher authority, or spiritual devotion. Atheism does not in any sense of the word, subscribe to this. That is why atheism can not be a religion... it is an ideology.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|
11-09-2002, 01:16 AM | #405 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Reread the selection of my post that you quoted, and you'll see that I didn't say there isn't similarity between species. On the contrary. I'm simply saying that if everything evolved over millions of years with many minor changes, we'd be seeing far more similarity between all the species than we do now. I suppose you might say that I'm wrong in this, but I really think everything would be much more mixed than it is now. Quote:
Besides, I doubt that you've read any of the faster evolution books, so how can you say what they explain and what they don't? Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
11-09-2002, 01:26 AM | #406 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|
11-09-2002, 01:34 AM | #407 | |||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|||
11-09-2002, 01:45 AM | #408 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
This website is funny. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 11-09-2002 at 02:01 AM. |
|||
11-09-2002, 01:47 AM | #409 |
Enting
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 57
|
Surprisinly all I here is BLAH BLAH BLAH CHIMPS BLAH BLAH BLAH DNA BLAH BLAH BLAH. Shows you how much I listen
__________________
Nothing is as real as a dream. The world can change around you, but your dream will not. Responsibilities need not erase it. Duties need not obscure it. Because the dream is within you, no one can take it away. --Unknown What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. --Ralph Waldo Emerson Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant. --Robert Louis Stevenson Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. --Unknown Love your enemies. It really pisses them off! --Unknown Age does not protect you from love. But love, to some extent, protects you from age. --Jeanne Moreau, French Actress We are never so helplessly unhappy as when we lose love. --Sigmund Freud |
11-09-2002, 01:55 AM | #410 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
LOL!
JD - it is around 98.5%, so yeah, late 90s is a good estimation.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-09-2002, 02:01 AM | #411 |
Enting
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 57
|
If you want I can translate what you just said BoP!
__________________
Nothing is as real as a dream. The world can change around you, but your dream will not. Responsibilities need not erase it. Duties need not obscure it. Because the dream is within you, no one can take it away. --Unknown What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. --Ralph Waldo Emerson Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant. --Robert Louis Stevenson Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. --Unknown Love your enemies. It really pisses them off! --Unknown Age does not protect you from love. But love, to some extent, protects you from age. --Jeanne Moreau, French Actress We are never so helplessly unhappy as when we lose love. --Sigmund Freud |
11-09-2002, 02:01 AM | #412 | |||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
Reread the selection of my post that you quoted, and you'll see that I didn't say there isn't similarity between species. On the contrary. I'm simply saying that if everything evolved over millions of years with many minor changes, we'd be seeing far more similarity between all the species than we do now. I suppose you might say that I'm wrong in this, but I really think everything would be much more mixed than it is now. [/b][/quote] I actually did understand that is what you are saying. The misunderstanding is that what I am saying is that the earth is not a steady state environment, that there isn't one ideal species, that a more complex organism is not necessarily a more successful one, and organisms that have differentiated from others evolve new characteristics from others and don't share genetic code. I don't think what you've said is rude, just misplaced. Quote:
[quote] Besides, I doubt that you've read any of the faster evolution books, so how can you say what they explain and what they don't? [quote] It may exist in some obscure bateria or something irrelevant form of life, with regards to evolution. It can not explain the millions of species that evolved over millions of years as shown in the fossil record. How do I know? The experience of walking up to an outcrop, looking for a fossil and discovering a trilobite, taking it back to find that the species was predicted to bbe found in that formation based on it's age and environment of deposition. And education is more than books and ideas; it's also about reality and functional information. It's not just because I have a degree in geology, it is because I have experienced the reality of what is out there in the fossil record. Quote:
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|||
11-09-2002, 02:03 AM | #413 | ||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
Quote:
"Lucy" also predates chimpanzees. She has a divergent big toe that chimps simply don't have. Her chest, while barrel shaped like that of a chimp, has a tendency towards the funneling that hominids have. I could go on, but eh, can't be bothered. A lot of australopithecines were dead ends. The idea that human evolution was linear has long been shot in the foot. It is now postulated that there were several austrolopithecines co-existing with each other, and divided up by geographic barriers. Homo erectus actually co-existed for some time with them.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
||
11-09-2002, 02:03 AM | #414 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
11-09-2002, 02:06 AM | #415 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
HORSESHOE CRABS: THE ANCIENT MARINERS
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 11-09-2002 at 02:17 AM. |
|
11-09-2002, 02:11 AM | #416 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-09-2002, 02:18 AM | #417 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Yeah, I know you meant that. I just make it a point to avoid creationist sites if I can; I tend to get really really annoyed when reading them.
What is your new avatar btw?
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-09-2002, 02:25 AM | #418 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-09-2002, 02:30 AM | #419 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
It gets tiresome when scientists do tons of research filling volumes of books, shelves of libraries, and some joker using a misplaced analogy goes. "see, it could be wrong". JD, I love the horseshoe crab! I grew up by the beach. I guess hunting for seashells is protopaleontology. Is that an F-17?
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 11-09-2002 at 02:34 AM. |
|
11-09-2002, 02:37 AM | #420 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
BoP - your defs:
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't been over this before, but maybe you guys have - I'm pretty new still. But it doesn't matter at all to me if you want to use the term "ideologies" - what matters to me is whether or not people are willing to scientifically evaluate the testable details of a theory! - be it named the "theory of evolution" or the "theory of creation by intelligent design". I saw lots of "of course you can't!!" for the latter theory earlier on this thread. Are you people of the same opinion now?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Evidence for Evolution | jerseydevil | General Messages | 599 | 05-18-2008 02:43 PM |
Catholic Schools Ban Charity | Last Child of Ungoliant | General Messages | 29 | 03-15-2005 04:58 PM |
Evidence for Creationism and Against Evolution | Rían | General Messages | 1149 | 08-16-2004 06:07 PM |
A discussion about Evolution and other scientific theories | Elvellon | General Messages | 1 | 04-11-2002 01:23 PM |
Evolution | IronParrot | Entertainment Forum | 1 | 06-19-2001 03:22 AM |