Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Andúril]

Wayfarer:
*snip*

To summarize and conclude: God is omnipotent, which means that nothing is too difficult for him. What he does is not determined by power, but by character.

This could be taken in at least two ways:

• those who hold that logic is inapplicable to God will understand this as the strong omnipotence defined above.
• Those, like Lewis, who hold that illogic is meaningless will understand this as a version of the weak omnipotence defined above.

The understanding of those in the second group who furthermore advocate the immutability of God's character will be closer to the definition of weak omnipotence stipulated above.

RÃ*an:
Have you read any Lewis? What are some books that you like?

I haven't read much of Lewis. Mainly a bit of his Narnia series in junior school and certain popular passages from The Problem of Pain and Mere Christianity that some like to introduce in discussions of this nature.

FrodoFriend:
Wow, the religion threads nowadays sure go down a different path from how they used to....

How so, may I ask?

Wayfarer:
this isn't a religion thread. It's an "ofshoot discussion" of a religion thread. ]: )

Oh. I thought it was an "offshoot discussion". Silly me.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Woohoo! My new title is there!

Hey, congrats!!

BTW, what is your avatar? It looks like a sword on red cloth.

by WayfarerYes. I have mine set as a hundred, the default is 20.

*does some calculations in her head* * 4 pages times .... *
Hey, that works out! My college education was worth it, after all

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hehe; it's part of a picture of Gandalf on the Bridge of Khazad-Dum. Evidently it didn't come out to well. :P

[Wayfarer]

This could be taken in at least two ways:
those who hold that logic is inapplicable to God will understand this as the strong omnipotence defined above.
Those, like Lewis, who hold that illogic is meaningless will understand this as a version of the weak omnipotence defined above.
The understanding of those in the second group who furthermore advocate the immutability of God's character will be closer to the definition of weak omnipotence stipulated above.

You seem to have missed my point.

Omnipotence is only applicable with regards to power or ability. It is completely logical that one might have the ability to do something and still refrain from doing it. Even an omnipotent being could choose not to do something.

The issue is whether the choice not to do something comes from a lack of power, or a lack of desire. If God chooses to do one thing and not another, his power does not decrease. if he only performs actions that are consistant with his own character, his power is not less.

It seems to me that you continuiously confuse power with what that power is used for.

[Andúril]

Wayfarer:
You seem to have missed my point.

I disagree.

More:
Omnipotence is only applicable with regards to power or ability. It is completely logical that one might have the ability to do something and still refrain from doing it. Even an omnipotent being could choose not to do something.

I agree.

More:
The issue is whether the choice not to do something comes from a lack of power, or a lack of desire. If God chooses to do one thing and not another, his power does not decrease.

Once again, I agree.

More:
if he only performs actions that are consistant with his own character, his power is not less.

I addressed this in my previous post.

More:
It seems to me that you continuiously confuse power with what that power is used for.

How so?

[HOBBIT]

for a hist alt assesment, I have to write an essay refuting or defending the statement "Martin Luther never intended to separate from the Roman Catholic Church"

I started mine saying basically he didn't intend to but it just sort of happened. With corrupt Catholic practices such as indulges and such.

The book has like 5 small para on Martin Luther. It doesn't really give any detail. The essay has to be at least three paragraphs and is due friday.

I don't want you guys to write essays yourselves helping me - but seeing as I don't know anything about christianity other than what the book tells me, I could use some help.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
for a hist alt assesment, I have to write an essay refuting or defending the statement "Martin Luther never intended to separate from the Roman Catholic Church"

I started mine saying basically he didn't intend to but it just sort of happened. With corrupt Catholic practices such as indulges and such.

The book has like 5 small para on Martin Luther. It doesn't really give any detail. The essay has to be at least three paragraphs and is due friday.

I don't want you guys to write essays yourselves helping me - but seeing as I don't know anything about christianity other than what the book tells me, I could use some help.

a couple years ago I did a report on a similar topic...justification by faith...the Luthern Reformation....BTW I am Catholic so if you have any questions I can help! From my understanding Luther intended to have the Catholic Church reform ro his ideas...and for the record yes at the time the Catholic church was pretty corrupt, I admit!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I doubt that there are many Catholics who wouldn't.

[Rían]

Hey Andúril, just a quick note to say I saw your response to my post, but I wasn't feeling very well Mon. eve and Tuesday, and last night I was up with a sick kid, and now I'm home with 2 sick kids! I'll hopefully get to it in a day or so, in the meantime, I'm just basically doing quick posts.

Highlights of last night:

• approx 2 am - daughter informs me of tummyache, I help her to the bathroom and re-tuck her in
• approx 3 am - daughter informs me tummyache is worse, I give her rabbit-shaped hot water bottle (recently christened "Coney" ) and tummy medicine and re-tuck her in
• approx 3:30 am - daughter throws up, hubby (bless him) attends to her, then comes back and we have post-game analysis (how much? how far digested was it? etc) to help determine if merely indigestion or possibly viral
• approx 4 am - daughter throws up again, I help her out. Has fever now - definitely viral
• 7 ish - daughter throws up again, son up with ... er, problems at the other end of the digestive tract! Find friend to take kid #3 to school, since driving in a car w/ 2 sick kids is NOT fun!

So I'm kinda fuzzy-brained right now...
(I'm sure you're all thrilled to know all these details - I hope no one is just heading off to lunch or anything....)

Also, Andúril, did you ever see my vent?
here

[Rían]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
for a hist alt assesment, I have to write an essay refuting or defending the statement "Martin Luther never intended to separate from the Roman Catholic Church"

I started mine saying basically he didn't intend to but it just sort of happened. With corrupt Catholic practices such as indulges and such.

The book has like 5 small para on Martin Luther. It doesn't really give any detail. The essay has to be at least three paragraphs and is due friday.

I don't want you guys to write essays yourselves helping me - but seeing as I don't know anything about christianity other than what the book tells me, I could use some help.

Whew, that's a complex topic, and I don't know much at all about it. Can you do an internet search to get some more text to work from? What I know about Christianity won't really help on your essay topic. My knowledge is more about the Bible, not about Luther and the reformation.

Here's something I found in Dictionary of the Ecumenical Movement

Lortz [a Roman Catholic historian] regarded the theology of Aquinas as the finest flowering of the medieval Catholic tradition. Unfortunately for 16-century Europe, Luther was not trained at Cologne in the authentically Catholic theology of Aquinas, but at Erfurt in the "fundamentally uncatholic" theology of William Ockham. Luther studied the commentaries and writings of Gabriel Biel and Pierre d'Ailly, disciples of Ockham, whose theology, Lortz believed, reflected the unclarity and confusion that marked the later middle ages. Luther correctly perceived many of the problems inherent in Occamist theology and made a genuinely Catholic protest against its distortions of the Catholic theological tradition. However, because Luther was not schooled in the theology of Aquinas, he went to what Lortz regarded as unwarranted extremes in his theological critique of Occamism and so lapsed into heresy.... From Lortz's perspective, the schism in the Western church might have been avoided if only Luther had studied the balanced, Agustinian theology of Aquinas.

Just something that might help - I won't say whether or not I agree with it, but it might help get you started. Good luck!

[Andúril]

RÃ*an:
Hey Andúril, just a quick note to say I saw your response to my post, but I wasn't feeling very well Mon. eve and Tuesday, and last night I was up with a sick kid, and now I'm home with 2 sick kids! I'll hopefully get to it in a day or so, in the meantime, I'm just basically doing quick posts.

Please RÃ*an, take your time. I am in absolutely no rush -- in fact, Entmoot has taken away a considerable amount of my study time lately, so I wouldn't mind if you respond in a months time.

More:
Also, Andúril, did you ever see my vent?
here

Yep. I ignored it like a true professional. See my reply.

[FrodoFriend]

-feels strong urge to get involved in religious discussion-

The only problem is that Wayfarer always gets so huffy when you contradict him. As do I, for that matter . . .

Anduril, are you an atheist?

[Andúril]

FrodoFriend:
Anduril, are you an atheist?

That's a complex question. An accurate answer would depend on exactly how you define the god-concept in question.

I am an atheist -- that much is clear, for I believe in no gods. Thus my atheism is better referred to as universally weak atheism.

Weren't you able to discern this from my posts in this thread?

[FrodoFriend]

Yes, but it's better to be safe and ask. I always thought Wayfarer was an atheist sort of guy, and you can see how right I was about that . . .

It is a complex question though. Although I also call myself an atheist, I choose to follow this belief because I have never felt any indication of God (I don't mean proof, mind you, I'm just talking about an indication here), but if I witnessed or felt something that seemed to point to the existence of God, I would be quite happy that there is indeed true goodness, etc. in the universe. Up until now, however, my Hobbit-sense speaks against the idea.

[Arien the Maia]

What church to do you belong to Gwaimir Windgem? your beliefs are really similar to mine.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Non-Denominational, Bible-Believing Christian.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Non-Denominational, Bible-Believing Christian.

My fiance used to go to a church like that!.... I was just curious!

[Wayfarer]

I AM NOT HUFFY!

You might like to know, FrodoFriend, that you really weren't far off. I AM an atheist sort of guy. I'm just not an atheist. ]: )

[Andúril]

Wayfarer:
I AM an athiest sort of guy. I'm just not an athiest.

I have decided against applying for a place in your "spelling and grammar" club.

[Rían]

Remember, Wayfarer - "i" before "e" except after "c".... and except in words like "atheist" (and a few hundred others....)