03-31-2006, 10:59 PM | #401 |
Elf Lord
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I Love Snow!!!!!
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) |
03-31-2006, 11:02 PM | #402 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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If it is that which provides things for us which is associated with beauty, why are mountains beautiful? Why is the sea, with its unpalatable water, more beautiful than a clear brook, or a lake with clean water? Why are ocean beaches beautiful?
Why aren't brussel sprouts? And there you go: snow! It doesn't fulfill any needs, and it signifies an environment which is unhospitable to humans.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 03-31-2006 at 11:03 PM. |
04-01-2006, 07:44 PM | #403 | |
"The Bomb"
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LOL!
The ocean, mountains, prairies, the sky, and the universe are beutiful to us because each one is a wonder. It's vastness that we're attracted too. (Snow makes the scenery look more vast.) The world is beautiful to us because it's huge, and makes as marvel at its complexity and contemplate our own place in its incomprehensible system. It humbles us, and impresses us. Bugs don't do that and that's why they're ugly, to most people. They do have a part in the system of life that does fascinate some people, but usually their ugliness overshadows that. Umm. . . Lief, I'll still get back to you on the stuff from two pages ago. EDIT: Quote:
I think this explains why some people don't appreciate nature or don't sea much beauty in forests and such. Ever notice how they were always the ditzes anyway? They actually do have the brain of a typical 12-year-old child.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 04-01-2006 at 08:00 PM. |
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04-01-2006, 08:48 PM | #404 | ||
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As a child I did appreciate the beauty of nature, as much as my immaturity allowed. My favourite baby picture is of me happily crawling through tall grass. (Not lawn grass, proper wild, grassland grass.)
I also collected bugs, as kids do.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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04-01-2006, 11:11 PM | #405 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(but rather serious, too)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-01-2006, 11:55 PM | #406 | ||
Elf Lord
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I don't think size equals ugliness or beauty, though it can contribute to something either way. Flowers are small, but they're beautiful . Large size for something beautiful means you have more beauty to look at, which is why we often like it more. Large size for something ugly means you have more ugliness to look at, which is why some of us like large insects less. I'll respond to the rest soon.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-02-2006, 01:52 AM | #407 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-07-2006, 07:43 PM | #408 | ||||||||
Elf Lord
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This is part of my response to post #945 in the Muslims thread.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-07-2006, 08:17 PM | #409 | ||||||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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But seriously, in common usage of the world at large, when most people refer to 'fundamentalists', surely you agree that they are not thinking of 'strict adherence to doctrine' but a sort of 'intolerance', or at the very least that when most people uses the word, it carries that connotation? Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-07-2006, 09:41 PM | #410 | ||||||||
Elf Lord
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. . . also continued from the Theology thread.
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There is so much unity here and so much clarity of message, as well as clear passages that order a peaceful response to persecution, that an interpretation that tries to say this is violent is certainly not a mistake that's easy to make. Quote:
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In short, every evidence indicates that this was a non-violent teaching. It would take ignoring all the rest of the chapter and speech and reading only verse 34 to come up with a violent teaching. Quote:
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People often think of fundamentalism as 'strict adherence to doctrine', or a literal reading of doctrine. However, they also think that strict adherence to doctrine or a literal reading of doctrine is intolerant, because they feel that some of the Bible passages themselves are intolerant. For example, Bible passages about homosexuality, or about Jesus being the only way to God are passages that many people see as intolerant when read in a literal way. So yes, I have received accusations of being intolerant before, and this is because of how I interpret the Bible. I agree with you that fundamentalism does carry that negative connotation. However, I think that people think fundamentalism is bad because they think a literal reading of doctrine is bad, and this is based on the flawed assumption that the scriptures are flawed and intolerant, and not written for modern realities or society. Scripture doesn't agree with modern society's morality, so it is antiquated. I would agree with them that fundamentalism is bad if it is strict adherence to an intolerant doctrine, and that is how they view it. Because I disagree with the base assumption that a literal reading of the scripture or a strict adherence to doctrine is an intolerant approach, I'm proud to be a fundamentalist . In spite of the accusations and slurs against fundamentalism.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-07-2006, 09:47 PM | #411 |
Elf Lord
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Bombadillo and Faramir, just to let you know, I haven't forgotten about you or our discussion. If you're able to respond, timewise, I'd be very happy to hear your replies!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-08-2006, 04:23 PM | #412 | ||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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But this particular question is going nowhere fast. I say we agree to disagree.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-08-2006, 05:11 PM | #413 |
Elf Lord
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I agree.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-09-2006, 09:41 PM | #414 | ||
"The Bomb"
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I totally didn't mean to take so long in responding. I didn't expect the answers that I got out of you Lief, and have been trying to figure out what to say about them. (...Really, where to start! )
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I think that we have an instinct which motivates us to believe in some higher power or some predestined direction, purpose, and significant individual impact of our lives, and we both know for sure there's an instinct telling us to "fit in." ("Peer pressure" is all I should have to say for an example.) These two instincts combined led to organized religion, an unthinkably long time ago. Since then, I think, we've evolved enough intelectually to see that these instincts (or at least the former one) are no longer needed. We're quite capable of thinking and functioning independently and IMO we must keep this in mind in order to grow strong and continue evolving. To me, faith in God seems like regressive behavior for someone so obviously intellectual as yourself. You don't have to answer these, but I wonder if you went through some trauma at age fifteen or if most of your life before then was horrible? Now it seems like you and I are just foils for each other.
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04-10-2006, 01:47 AM | #415 | ||||||
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But then another tricky factor is that many non-religious people don't have these kinds of experiences in their lives at all. The impossible experiences trail certain people and leave the non-religious completely or near completely untouched. One could argue that the religious people are looking for such experiences, but they could only argue that if I was talking about experiences that aren't the tricky-to-explain variety (electric fence handling, Brother Andrew's Bibles, impossible miraculous healings, etc.). There are millions out there who claim such experiences. It's not at all outdated. I suggest reading the Book of Acts from the Bible, if you have the time and interest. That describes what many Christians in the world have experienced ever since the first century AD quite effectively. The majority of Christians have not experienced such wonders, but millions have. So I recommend it as very enlightening reading. Reading it with the assumption that these are true events recorded (and you can think up explanations for them as you go, that's totally valid) may at least enlighten you as to why I think the way I do, which would probably be nice . Here's my perspective. Miracles of very tricky-to-explain types have occurred in my personal life, in my grandmother's personal life, in my father, mother and one of my sister's personal lives, in friends' lives and in the lives of their relations, and these are miracles on the level of the miracles occurring in the Book of Acts, miracles that are near impossible. Now me and my circle of acquaintances is a very, very, very, very small group in the Christian body. A tiny handful of people. Yet this has happened in the lives of that handful. I've seen statistics that show there are millions who have such experiences. I've heard many well documented accounts of such experiences in the lives of other Christians, and experiences far more extraordinary than those I've experienced or my circle of acquaintances has experienced. So I know that these things are occurring on a broad scale in Christian communities. There is also a significant number of Christians who believe miracles are very infrequent in modern times. However, the statistics and numbers argue against them. My personal experience and the experience of my acquaintances suggests otherwise (I've encountered several Christians who practice what's called the spiritual gifts (powers from God, essentially), and it seems unlikely that we're all rarities), and the Christian Evangelical community at large strongly claims otherwise. So there is strong reason to believe that such miracles do occur. So that's my perspective. Reading Acts would give you an idea what occurs among many Christians in modern times. Or Luke and then Acts (they're both by the same author and go together), for that would give you more of an idea about what Jesus was like and what he did. If you have problems with what you read, such as miracles or other, or questions, you could bring them to me. Not that I'm forcing this idea on you! Read Luke and/or Acts if you want and I think it would give you much more insight into my mind and many Christians' experiences. Quote:
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How I met God My own experience of coming to know God, and my relationship with him since have proved to me that he is loving. I'm afraid I get quite emotional about the time I came to know God. It occurred when I was fifteen. The six months prior to that year were the worst of my life thus far, and I'll tell you why. First came God's call. I began to feel hungry in my spirit, though I didn't understand the hunger for what it was. It was very strong and potent. It was almost as though I had a second physical stomach in me. That feeling was so strong that a few times I thought about trying to eat more at dinner to fill it, but that could not have worked, for I was full already. It was a spiritual hunger, though it came across as next thing to physical. Around that time, I began to pray to God that he would reveal himself to me. However, I was very afraid that if I prayed, God would not answer. Then, the house of cards that was my Christianity at that time would collapse and the religion that was so important to my parents would be meaningless to me. This was a great fear, so I never set a date for meeting with God, though I did pray that he would come to me. Shortly after I began praying for the personal relationship with God, Satan sent a demon to destroy me and my family. The demon put compulsions into my head that were not from me. I could be just doing my normal activities, and all of a sudden I had almost no choice but to murder someone who was vulnerable. Overwhelming impulses began to overrun me to murder family members, to kill myself and them. These weren't just idle intellectual pondering, but rather ideas or thoughts that were powerful enough to overwhelm my resistance and make me perform them. Once, when I was standing on the patio to my house, I was holding a hammer and talking with my Dad about our garden. As he bent over to show me a plant, the urge came next to overwhelming, near forcing me to slam the hammer through his skull. I made myself drop the hammer, because I was so close to killing my father. I did not begin to suspect demonic involvement until the final days before God came to meet me. I had no experience at all, you see, and little understanding of my religion. I was afraid that I was becoming insane, but I was too afraid of going to an asylum to talk to my parents about it. All I knew to do was resist the thoughts as hard as I could when they came, but it always was a close thing. Six months of this condition passed, the incidents increasing in frequency, and then God saved me. When I call Jesus my Savior, for me, the first thing I think of is the way in which he saved my physical life. All Christians call Jesus their Savior because he saved us from our sins on the cross. For me, it has another layer of meaning though, one which is very, very strong. I opened the Bible one day, just flipped it open randomly, and the words seemed to leap off the page. All the words fitted precisely with my situation, were fitted directly to the need and longing in my heart. They were personal mail, a personal letter from God to me. It was not like reading a book. It was like reading personal mail. You know the difference. I could hear God speaking, not with my physical ears, but with just as much certainty as if I had. The experience was so strong that I was thrilled and bubbling about it all day long. I also told my parents about the murderous compulsions I'd been experiencing, and they drew the connection to demons far more swiftly and solidly than I had. They prayed over me, and from that moment on, those compulsions ceased. That was how my experience with God began. The challenge that demon posed was not quite over, though. A few days later, it came back. It was night, and I had a nightmare of a door being opened and red ants cascading out. A particularly large one, about as big as my hand with pincers and claws, began to scramble toward me. Something knocked it over on its back, but it righted itself again and came at me again. In horror, I started awake. My horror doubled then, for even though I was awake, I saw the creature right next to me on the bed. It was an adult's hand's length. The massive insect scrambled down toward my feet and then vanished into thin air. I went out to the living room of our house and there encountered the demon again. I did not see it that second time, but sensed it powerfully. You know how you can feel where your hand is with your eyes closed, and point right to it with your other hand even without seeing it? It was rather like that. Only I could also feel all its emotions, could feel this entity's hatred and desire to kill. I banished it in Jesus' name and it left. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-10-2006, 08:47 AM | #416 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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"You talk, I'll listen"
...GOD....(the movie Oh, God)
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-10-2006, 11:51 AM | #417 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-10-2006, 11:53 AM | #418 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...personally I believe in a higher power.....after all, the face that looks back at me in the bathroom mirror, doesn't inspire power or confidence!
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-10-2006, 12:09 PM | #419 |
Andúril the White
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Damn, I never got that instinct. The dealer ripped me off. *feels left out*
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04-10-2006, 08:13 PM | #420 |
"The Bomb"
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I can't believe you've actually seen that movie Spock! I almost quoted it in response to Lief. (God says "I don't worry about the details." )
Lief, what I meant to emphasize was that such a strict and literal interpretation of the Bible is much rarer today than in ages past, not so much that belief in miracles has decreased. My God instict idea hasn't been thought out as fully as the other ideas I post. I just thought about it maybe a week ago. But so far I think it makes sense. As humans, our stregnth is our intellect. We are Earth's only sentient species. We can't survive in the world without clever inventions like blankets and spears or insulated houses and hunting rifles. Our survival and our evolution requires intellectual growth. In contrast, animals are physically adapted to be able to survive. Even still, some of them, like penguins, rely on instincts telling them to stick together with others of their species. They developed that instinct through evolution. Maybe in the days of early humans, nothing was motivating us to stick together. We were probably self-sufficient (at least each little family could provide for itself, as opposed to each big flock), and had little use for each other. Since even then we were reasonable, we wondered why we shouldn't just kill all the people we didn't rely on. There was probably no reason to kill them, but no reason to keep them alive either. What united us could not have been a simple little "flock" instinct like the one that the penguins need to keep each other warm and alive. I think this because we would have second-guessed such an instinct and we didn't need each other like penguins do. We would not have seen the importance of peace in relation to the continuation of our species either. We would have longed for an explanation on exactly why some useless person's life should go on. The only thing that could have satisfied that longing was the idea that "Hey, there must be some sort of higher power working over us, and yes, come to think of it, it's probably the same power responsible for the creation of this wonderful world. It must be so powerful that I couldn't even hope to understand how or why it works. It's just a harmony that I won't disturb." (IIRC, that was the philosophy of most Native American Indian tribes, who came over the landbridge directly from Mesopotamia during an ice age and stayed isolated in America until the smarter but still stupid white man drove them into extinction.) The Native Americans had the right idea, but somewhere down the road, as we became even more capable of intricate ideas, someone said "Let's give the power a name: _____. And let's all say 'the _____ works in mysterious ways' for our catchprase!" Now, we're at the beginning of a point in evolution where that idea is no longer necessary. It stimulated our intellect just enough to get us to this point, but now a lot of people understand that the mysterious power is so mysterious that we shouldn't even bother thinking about it at all. We don't have to rely on what past generations have told us that this power has said concerning right and wrong. We've evolved so much intellectually that we can recognize what feels right and do it all by ourselves. That's good! BTW, when I use dialogue to explain my thoughts, it's because the only other way I can think to say it is ridiculously long. I don't mean anything here sarcastically, but it sure sounds that way when I choose to be concise.
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