05-05-2006, 08:11 PM | #401 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
|
I do have an opinion on gay marriage. I think they should. Is this the right place for that? But I am sure gay rights isn't about sex. It's about equal treatment under the law. I support them. My wife and I happen to be the opposite sex, so we get to be bisexuals in disguise. But there are times we have felt so bad for the gays not being able to marry that we wanted to get ours revoked along with theirs. We only look straight.
Where I said I can't speak about gayness is the whole issue of being born that way. I am of the opinion, based on myself, that people are born without a preference and pick one up over time. But my best friend is sure he was born gay. So maybe he was. I don't think so, but it's not my life. Know what I mean? |
05-06-2006, 06:17 AM | #402 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
Sorry, Rian, but I think you and Gwai between you have just proven my point. Your capitalisation suggests to me that you are unable to even look at a gay person without contemplating their sexual acts. You see, this is the thing. Were those gay parents engaging in sexual acts on the White House lawn? Were they holding placards depicting images of sexual activity? No. They were just there. Elsewhere, of course, we have some irrelevant discussion about whether children are capable of consenting to sex acts. I look at a gay couple and I see love. It seems to me that you look at a gay couple and see immoral sex acts. Its a shame. PS - hope the kids invasion was fun Last edited by The Gaffer : 05-06-2006 at 07:13 AM. |
|
05-06-2006, 07:31 AM | #403 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Oh Shudder!! Evil Rainbow hats!! Rian...you poor suffering creature... What DOES go where? Inked dear...can you elaborate with some of your famous fisting and rimming jargon!
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
05-06-2006, 05:14 PM | #404 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
That's a whole 'nuther point. I don't want the people to go away and not exist. I'm only addressing the "obsession" thing - that it's not the conservatives who are obsessed with it. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ps - what do you mean by "Your capitalisation"?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-06-2006 at 05:27 PM. |
||||
05-06-2006, 05:18 PM | #405 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
The discussion was about clearing up the rather foundless statement that "conservatives" are "obsessed" with what goes where. I was making my first point (of several) to disprove that - showing that it's the homosexuals who are choosing to bring it into the public. I can understand why they do, and it's excellent strategy, but then to call conservatives "obsessed" with it, if they aren't bringing it there, just seems pretty foundless. I think they're "obsessed" with it in the same way that if someone's finger is poking into you, you're "obsessed" with it.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-06-2006 at 05:24 PM. |
|
05-06-2006, 05:24 PM | #406 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I heart you so much Gaffer.
Quote:
Unless that wasn't your point either, and we are like two ships passing in the night? Are you against PETA or Greenpeace or Bono because they too promote their views publicly? (Sometimes, very much in your face.) I mean, you very possibly could be, and a lot of people don't agree with one or more of those guys. Just askin'.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
05-06-2006, 05:30 PM | #407 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Quote:
NEWS ALERT!!Gay people exist...always have, always will. Get over it.
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-06-2006 at 05:31 PM. |
|
05-06-2006, 05:36 PM | #408 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
well, Liz, by your statements, I am not a conservative, because I don't fit what you just said
Nurvi - no, I'm not against people promoting their views publically. All I was doing was trying to dispel the "obsessed" thing, which IMO is just unfounded. I don't think it's being obsessed if a group whose viewpoint you disagree with makes major public demonstrations and you respond. EDIT - and a bisexual person (really nice girl, I miss her!) started this thread, not an "obsessed" heterosexual Oh wait - I can't think she's nice, and I can't think any of my non-het friends are nice, right Liz? I'm just angry right now - I"m signing off for a bit.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-06-2006 at 05:38 PM. |
05-06-2006, 06:15 PM | #409 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
2) Whether or not homosexual acts are right or wrong, in and of the themselves. Quote:
The 'reason' given was a majority fearing a minority, so how can minorities have the same reason?
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
||
05-06-2006, 06:23 PM | #410 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
05-06-2006, 06:44 PM | #411 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
|
05-06-2006, 08:35 PM | #412 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies.
Posts: 821
|
I see what you're saying, Rian, but the trouble with that argument (that the conservative obsession is merely a reaction to activists) is that the activists feel that they are merely reacting to said obsession. And to an extent, they're both correct in those beliefs. It's a pointless cycle of finger pointing and 'who started it' arguments that in the end don't do a thing to resolve the issue.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
|||
05-06-2006, 08:46 PM | #413 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
|
05-06-2006, 10:03 PM | #414 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies.
Posts: 821
|
Quote:
You say you have no problem with people of any sexual orientation, yet you've also said some things which I've found to be incredibly offensive. And I don't think you meant them to be, which is why I'm replying and not just leaving in a huff. So here's my question: If you really, truly do not have any problem with people of any sexual orientation, then how can you believe that those people who are not heterosexual don't deserve the same rights as those who are? If we consider each other friends, then I consider it my duty to point out instances of what seems to me to resemble doublethink (from 1984, I believe that's the right term... it's the newspeak word for simultaneously believing two contradictory things).
__________________
"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
|
05-07-2006, 01:53 AM | #415 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I'll be glad to answer, and hope to challenge you to think about what you've been saying, too. I'll have to wait until Monday, though, to have any length of time to post.
And believe me, people here say incredibly offensive things to me, too, about my beliefs - but if I can see that the heart behind it doesn't mean to offend, then I can let it pass and keep up the dialog and the friendship.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-07-2006 at 02:00 AM. |
05-07-2006, 11:35 AM | #416 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies.
Posts: 821
|
Rest assured that already think about what I say, far more than I actually say it, but I can always think more. Speaking of food for thought, here's something a bit lighter, but still very relevant:
http://www.ozyandmillie.net/2000/om20000817.html
__________________
"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
05-07-2006, 05:23 PM | #417 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
My "challenge you to think" line to you was in response to your "challenging you to think" line to me. I've already thought a lot - a LOT - a heckuva lot - about this issue. I prob. should have just said that, instead of giving the challenge back to you. The way I read your line, it seemed like you thought I wasn't thinking, so I challenged you back. Lots of good thought in that cartoon! If I ever am in a demonstration in support of one-man/one-woman marriage, I think I"ll hold a sign saying "God loves gays" ... all those hateful signs really tick me off. Hateful signs from BOTH sides, actually ... Well, hope to get a detailed answer to you tomorrow - today's just a quick check-in.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
|
05-07-2006, 05:57 PM | #418 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
Quote:
No, those who disagree with me are not automatically wrong because I believe them to be so. I could certainly be wrong. I just don't believe that I am. Like you, I also have given a lot of thought to this, naturally. I don't want it to be necessarily wrong to give in to my feelings. I would like it if there were some way in which I could do so, without denying my conscience. However, I simply do not see any way that I can do so. Quote:
Allow me to say that I sincerely and absolutely do not want to offend anyone, and I pray God Almighty that I may not do so. I am interested in charitable and thoughtful discussion, but if I say anything offensive, I apologise beforehand; it is not my intention to do so.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 05-07-2006 at 05:59 PM. |
|||
05-07-2006, 10:17 PM | #419 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
(jumps back in for a sec while the kids are playing their new Narnia video game)
I don't think denying a part of yourself is necessarily a bad thing. I try to deny parts in me that I think are wrong, like my selfishness and laziness. I even try to develop the opposite thought/action. I suppose you could call that denying part of myself - but again, I don't think that's a bad thing. (ps - just to forestall a possible objection, NO, I do not think homosexuals are lazy or self-centered any more than other people. I'm talking about the CONCEPT of denying part of one's self and that IMO it's not always a bad thing to do.)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 05-07-2006 at 10:18 PM. |
05-07-2006, 11:45 PM | #420 | ||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies.
Posts: 821
|
Quote:
I'm not saying the benefits offered with marriage are inalienable human rights, but they are offered to anyone from other groups who are willing to commit to binding, longterm, relationships and should therefore be offered to homosexuals who are willing to commit to binding, longterm relationships. Quote:
Quote:
As in, because giving in to them denies your conscience it must be wrong for everyone. (Correct me if I'm wrong, that's just what it's sounding like from my point of view). For myself, I believe (also very strongly) that if giving into these feelings brings significant happiness to myself and my partner and doesn't physically harm anyone then there is no way they can be wrong. Of course, I also believe that God has bigger things to be worrying about when it comes to humans. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Homosexuality, on it's own, unstigmatized, does not prevent forming strong relationships, does not lead to lowered self-esteem, does not cause depression, and has contributed to survival in a social group. Example: 'The Sacred Band', Theban elite troops composed of 150 pairs of homosexual lovers. Use of these troops enabled Thebes to break Spartan control of the Peloponnesias. The nature of these soldiers caused them to fight harder and as a more cohesive unit. (Can you tell it's exam week? )
__________________
"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
||||||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, Part 1 | Valandil | LOTR Discussion Project | 26 | 12-28-2007 06:36 AM |
Do you know this.... | Grey_Wolf | General Messages | 997 | 06-28-2006 09:29 PM |
Gays, lesbians, bisexuals | Nurvingiel | General Messages | 988 | 02-06-2006 01:33 PM |