Multi-culturalism boon or bane?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by inked

And it's on the BBC so it must be true, accurate, and all that sort of thing!

What is? That she has made that specific statement or that the statement itself must be true universerally and perpetually, so that you -unlike the rest of us- must have been right all along?

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I see no gain in trying to promote atheism, nor to criticise religion for its un-scientificness.

... and that's why I will NEVER be an accommodationist. The religious-realm has NO PLACE in the scientific arena. NONE. I have absolutely no patience for people who try re-write the earth's history, or quote mine academic work in order to re-work faith into science. It grates my tits, as the quote goes.

[inked]

Remember in 2008, when sharia courts were Britain's choice?
.
September 14, 2008
Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4749183.ece
.
.
.
Note the outcome by today.
October 18, 2010
Rape within marriage is 'impossible', claims Muslim cleric
A senior Muslim cleric in charge of Britain’s largest group of sharia law courts has claimed that there is no such thing as rape within marriage.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...im-cleric.html
"Rape within marriage has been illegal in Britain since 1991. But according to Sheikh Sayeed, rape is defined in Islamic law as adultery by force. Therefore, if a husband forces himself upon his wife the attack cannot be termed “rape”, he said. "

Just observing.

EDIT: Here's the Moot search result for the occurrence of the word sharia to save all the trouble of tiring the search engine repeatedly: http://entmoot.com/search.php?searchid=1107090 ;>)

EDIT2: And I just came across this account of genuine multiculturalism ...
"Yet if you read their jihad tracts and listen carefully to their pronouncements, the mujahideen from the Arabic-speaking Middle East variety -- from the Farsi-speaking Persians, the Indian-Pakistani Urdu-speakers, and the tribal Afghans and their Pashtu dialects to the Arabic speaking Africans of the Maghreb, and down to the multilingual sub-Saharan tribes -- all embrace the all-encompassing theo-political-military-legal doctrinal system of shariah as the basis for their actions. In other words, these grossly disparate cultures with no common language, history, or political grievances all come together to agree on one thing: Islamic law -- shariah -- binds them to strive with life and limb (the root word in Arabic: j-h-d) to impose a worldwide political hegemony, called the Caliphate, on the Muslim and non-Muslim world." See entire article at
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...o_america.html

[GrayMouser]

Yes, multi-kulti in Germany has failed- in a country where, up till the year 2000, even if you had been legally born in Germany and grown up speaking German, you were still not eligible for German citizenship- and then they complain that these people, having been told over and over that they were merely guests and could never become Germans, didn't want to integrate.

Was I the only one who had a bit of a disgustingly racist snigger at the complaint that these people hadn't adopted "German values"?
What, they didn't want to invade Poland?

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

Remember in 2008, when sharia courts were Britain's choice?
.
September 14, 2008
Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4749183.ece
.
.
.
Note the outcome by today.
October 18, 2010
Rape within marriage is 'impossible', claims Muslim cleric
A senior Muslim cleric in charge of Britain’s largest group of sharia law courts has claimed that there is no such thing as rape within marriage.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...im-cleric.html
"Rape within marriage has been illegal in Britain since 1991. But according to Sheikh Sayeed, rape is defined in Islamic law as adultery by force. Therefore, if a husband forces himself upon his wife the attack cannot be termed “rape”, he said. "
Just observing.

Marital rape ban ‘tragically wrong’ says the Christian Council

http://crisiscentrebahamas.wordpress...stian-council/

Yep, that's why we need to keep religion away from the court system.

[inked]

Here's the significant part of your linkage left out:

"In late July, the Ingraham administration presented proposed legislation to Parliament that would totally ban marital rape in The Bahamas.

Since then, several religious leaders from various denominations that fall under the BCC have said they support the marital rape ban.

In a recent statement, Catholic Archbishop Patrick Pinder said when forced sexual activity takes place within the context of marriage, the biblical understanding of marriage is distorted and the relationship between husband and wife is ruptured. Pinder stressed that such sexual activity is not conjugal love and is rightly seen as a crime against the dignity of the human person.

“It must be clearly understood that rape is never an act of love nor is it ever an act of intimacy. It is always an act of violence against the person. Like any act of violence, be it physical, verbal or otherwise, rape has no place in the communion of life and love which is marriage properly understood,” Pinder said.

Earlier this week, The Bahamas Methodist Church urged the government to bring the legislation into force as soon as possible.

“The double-standard we have held between marital rape (since it cannot be legally defined as such) and other rape needs to be removed. Rape, which is a crime of violence, must be defined, tried and punished as such,” said President of the Bahamas Conference of the Methodist Church William Higgs.

“No crime of violence should ever be confused with the sexual intimacy of marriage.”

And in an address to a Rotary club yesterday, Anglican Archdeacon James Palacious also expressed support for the amendment being proposed.

“I believe that the law seeks to discourage men who are in very strained relationships with their wives even if they are still living together from forcing their wives to have sex,” said Palacious."

Do you mean they should have NOT supported the ban, GM? Since apparently it's only the Bahamas? or vat?

[GrayMouser]

What, that other Christian leaders oppose this? Uh, surprise, many other Muslim leaders oppose Sheikh Sayeed's views.

Since this has turned into the "Stupid Yhings Religious Leaders Say" thread:

The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.

According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew,” Yosef said.

“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.

That is why gentiles were created,” he added

The Rabbi previously called for the annihilation of all Arabs, though the outcry forced him to walk it back.

I'd note that the Rabbi's political party has four seats in the Israeli Cabinet, and its leader is a Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Interrnal Affairs.

[GrayMouser]

Multi-kulti fails in Germany, works in Canada

Fresh off a groundbreaking election that saw the city elect its first Muslim mayor, Calgary was buzzing Tuesday morning over the come-from-behind win of Naheed Nenshi.

“I didn't think that the voters of Calgary are so open-minded,” said a smiling Jorjete Bojanova, 45. “The win says that Calgary needs an international visionary, a person with a lot of interesting ideas, different experience, and a new way.”

This in Alberta, often called "the Texas of Canada", against an opponent backed by the Conservative establishment, up to and including the Prime Minister.

Mark Steyn's head must be exploding: Interesring Ideas! Different Experience!! Squawk, Dhimmitude, Dhimmitude Squawk, Squawk!

[inked]

GM, could you please provide links to back up your assertion that other Muslims oppose this interpretation? You know, like the opposition quoted in the link you provided about the Bahamas? Thanks.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Seriously? Alberta?

[brownjenkins]

Sometimes when I read Inked's posts, it almost makes me think that he relishes in the hatreds some cultures hold towards one another. It's like it's some kind of talisman.

I'm with you on atheism Jonathan. But I would add, which may go to BoPs point, and to my comment about Inked as well, that humans are not completely rational. They simply can not be, no matter how hard they try. We have the *capacity* to be rational about certain things at certain points in time, but we mistakenly assume that because of this capacity we are totally rational beings by default. In reality, the prejudices of our upbringings completely overcome the rationality we can have about specific subjects, with religion being one of the foremost.

It's like the mother who can't help but defend her child no matter what crimes he or she may have committed. The conclusion is incomprehensible, so any alternative explanation becomes acceptable.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by bj

In reality, the prejudices of our upbringings completely overcome the rationality we can have about specific subjects, with religion being one of the foremost.

Seems to me that reducing these overriding prejudices to upbringing is rather simplistic. They are, rather, the prejudices which spring from our identities, from the frameworks we construct to interpret the world, etc. Parts of this will come from our upbringing, of course, but parts will constitute a rejection of our upbringing, and parts will have little to do with it, one way or the other.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Seems to me that reducing these overriding prejudices to upbringing is rather simplistic. They are, rather, the prejudices which spring from our identities, from the frameworks we construct to interpret the world, etc. Parts of this will come from our upbringing, of course, but parts will constitute a rejection of our upbringing, and parts will have little to do with it, one way or the other.

Unless you were raised by wolves, I think you are giving your parents far too little credit! (and giving yourself far too much)

As a father of four (soon to be five ), I can tell you that people are what they experience in the early years of life, whether they choose to admit it or not. Parents, or whoever functions as parents, are the prism on the world for the rest of our lives.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

:
:
As a father of four (soon to be five )...

Congratulations! Wow - I thought you were still at three.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Ditto on the congrats.

Your certainly right that our parents shape the way we encounter the world for the rest of our lives, but it's in a much more complex way than just imparting "the prejudices of our upbringing," which henceforth define our approaches to significant question. Sometimes, it's by way of providing something for us to react against, in our development of other prejudices, and so on.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Your certainly right ...

Quoted for posterity! /sing-song

[The Gaffer]

Congrats BJ! It's good to see a rational person doing all that breeding. Bodes well for the future.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Quoted for posterity! /sing-song

Ye gods! Caught in a typo!!!

Well, then . . .

[inked]

"Sometimes when I read Inked's posts, it almost makes me think that he relishes in the hatreds some cultures hold towards one another. It's like it's some kind of talisman."

Actually, BJ, it is presentation of the data of reality as opposed to the talisman that "good is relative" but you seem incapable of ratiocination in this regard.

I do not relish it at all. But I also do not hide behind denial that it exists and MUST be dealt with everywhere.

[inked]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Multi-kulti fails in Germany, works in Canada



This in Alberta, often called "the Texas of Canada", against an opponent backed by the Conservative establishment, up to and including the Prime Minister.

Mark Steyn's head must be exploding: Interesring Ideas! Different Experience!! Squawk, Dhimmitude, Dhimmitude Squawk, Squawk!

Food for thought, even if it is an email joke making the rounds:

A young Arab asks his father:

- What is this weird hat that we are wearing ?

It's a "chechia" because in the desert it protects our heads from the sun !

- And what is this type of clothing that we are wearing ?

It's a "djbellah" because in the desert it is very hot and it protects your body !

- And what are these ugly shoes that we have on our feet ?

These are "babouches", which keep us from burning our feet when in the desert !


Tell me, papa...



Yes, my son?



Why are we living in Dearborn, Michigan and still wearing all this sh*t?