10-05-2005, 12:16 AM | #381 | ||||
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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And please cut the ad hominem arguments.
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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10-05-2005, 12:22 AM | #382 |
Word Santa Claus
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Curubethion... many of us have provided arguments about how evolution is based on something more than simply faith, and is a theory and not a belief (and also mentioned the difference between those two). It is simply not true to say that if creationism doesn't belong in science class, evolution doesn't. I refer you again to Edwards v. Aguillard.
Additionally, if you explore Big Bang Theory (in its most modern versions) you'll find out how science tries to explain something-out-of-nothing... which is a little off-topic for evolution. Evolution does indeed include life-from-not-life, which we've gone over recently in response to Rian's questions about abiogenesis/chemical evolution. But for the formation of that not-life, you'll have to go outside the scope of evolution. And where did God come from in a theistic model? It too has no beginning, because beginnings are very difficult (since they aren't analogous to today, and so are hard to decipher). P.S. since when is direct evidence the only admissable evidence? Indirect evidence is still evidence. Fossil record. Artificial selection. olorin's example of the sticklebacks. And guys, please keep it civil. We don't want to get shut down here.
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Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. Last edited by Count Comfect : 10-05-2005 at 12:25 AM. |
10-05-2005, 12:23 AM | #383 |
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Nice job decifering that one, smartie pants. believe what you want. just dont push it on me. Creationsist are lost! next time print the whole thing. eddie H bomb Hmm
an h bomb did in hiroshima and nagasaki did it not? |
10-05-2005, 12:25 AM | #384 | |
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10-05-2005, 12:25 AM | #385 | |
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And all the "evidence for evolution" is simply evidence that evolution is possible; there is no evidence that it actually did happen. The same is true for any theistic belief. Ergo they are both religions. And the Big Bang material still had to come from something.
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) Last edited by Curubethion : 10-05-2005 at 12:28 AM. |
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10-05-2005, 12:27 AM | #386 |
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I simply wished to offer insight into frontierism not insult. Like Ganadlf to Bilbo
"Im not trying to rob you, I am trying to help you" |
10-05-2005, 12:29 AM | #387 | |
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10-05-2005, 12:29 AM | #388 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Frontierism seems a little off topic to me. Please don't go on any more tangents.
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
10-05-2005, 12:32 AM | #389 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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1. State a problem or question 2. Formulate a hypothesis 3. Experiment on the hypothesis 4. Make a conclusion 5. Verify the results 6. Submit for additional verification It seems to me that both evolution and creation get hung up on #3, so by the scientific method both are unscientific->both are beliefs. And yes, that was very polite. Thanks!
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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10-05-2005, 12:32 AM | #390 | |
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10-05-2005, 12:34 AM | #391 | |
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10-05-2005, 12:36 AM | #392 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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You said a discussion of the scientific method was in order.
[Think it's time to call it a day... ]
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
10-05-2005, 12:38 AM | #393 |
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Curubethion, your #3 is incomplete. Scientific method can also include "observe evidence related to the hypothesis." Otherwise, astronomy (for example) is also not science, because you don't experiment on the stars. Nor is geochemistry, because we don't fiddle with deep sea vents, we just observe them. Science has ample room for non-experimental observation. We look for "natural experiments" - that is, times in history that nature has done something similar to what we'd like to do if we had the power. So for evolution, we look at the fossil record and compare to environmental indicators of the past to see if things changed as we would have expected them to. For one example.
And getting out of a difficulty by saying that it "transcends what we can mentally grasp" is EXACTLY why theism is OUTSIDE science and evolution is NOT. Because science deals with what we CAN grasp. Evidence for evolution is NOT just that evolution is possible. It is that evolution appears to have occurred - ie, evolution predicts that if a finch population found itself suddenly on the Galapagos with many niches unfilled, it might expand to fill those niches. And we observe that it appears to have done so. This is just like saying "Newton predicts the gravitational force should be X. It is X. Therefore Newton is supported." It is evidence for evolution over any other theory that does not predict the same thing as evolution... and if a theory predicts the same thing, how is it different?
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10-05-2005, 11:46 AM | #394 | |||
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10-05-2005, 11:55 AM | #395 | |
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i think CC spelled it out pretty well...
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-05-2005, 12:39 PM | #396 |
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I "believe" we'd be all 'hanged' the moment we put all our eggs in one basket...bound to trip up this early in the game and loose them all if you feel the need to champion one over the other.
1. Evidence for 'Intelligent Design' lies in a vein of logic. 2. Evidence for "Evolution" lies in vain of logic as well I'm getting a new computer....I just put some plastic knobs, dirt, an apple core, bolts, cut wires, and a piece of glass into my top drawer of my desk at work...should be any day now it'll turn into a Mac Titanium...of course I'm helping it out by shaking the drawer...OH, wait, maybe that's cheating....inserting 'intelligent design' through nudging....wait....it was my idea to create the thing in the first place ......the conundrum! LOL If you took this post seriously.....you may need more beer....in fact....I need more beer....hehehe
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! Last edited by EarthBound : 10-05-2005 at 01:22 PM. |
10-05-2005, 12:41 PM | #397 |
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don't forget your new computer comes with a cup holder
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10-05-2005, 12:56 PM | #398 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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beliefs are based on logic
science is based on logic and evidence and beer is good
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
10-05-2005, 12:59 PM | #399 | |
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-05-2005, 01:27 PM | #400 | |
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Beer Evolution Oye, just a had a startling thought, would life elsewhere in the universe proove one theory/concept over another....somehow I don't think so....we're doomed DOOMED doomed I say.... Burp!
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |
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