Polictical Correctness

[jerseydevil]

Kwanzaa (Quansa) is a holiday celebrated by many African-Americans. It is held December 26th through January 1st. It was started in 1966 by Doctor Maulana Karenga, Professor at the California State University, Long Beach, California.

It was an invented holiday to seperate black celebration from "white christmas".

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Yet - NJ and NY using a goddess is perfectly okay - right? It's a symbol that represents the HISTORY of their city. Do think LA should change the name of it's city? It MIGHT be offensive to some people since it's currently the City of ANGELS.

I don't know, are there currently any Worshipers of said Goddess? Is it an active religion that people are going to think the City Government endorses? It doesn't matter if it OFFENDS someone. That's not the point. The point is whether or not it gives someone the impression that the city government is ENDORSING what the symbol represents. If you could reasonably make a case that the city government are a bunch of Athena Worshipers or Devotees of Diana, then it might be something to worry about.

That whole first amendment thing.... No endorsement of religion. Sure people get carried away, but that's what the courts are for. Are you saying the system doesn't work? That they don't have the correct interpretation of the constitution?

As for Angels, there's some room for fudge... Angels aren't representative of any particular religious orthodoxy... They exist in one shape form or fashion in many different religions... even some you wouldn't expect...

You could make an argument that angels are representative of the cities history also.. hence the name...

But how are you going to make an argument that a cross represents something DISTINCTIVE and relevant to the cities history? Sure it was a mission at one time. Before that it was indian territory... Like most of the other cities in the US that were established by Spain...

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Actually - midget is one of the unacceptable terms. There is a list that newspapers that lists unPC words and midget is one of them. I suppose you don't know that - sicne you think that it's a perfectly okay term.

Sorry, but I don't accept the newspaper's list. You may if you want, but why do you think that there's some kind of overarching authority inherant in the press? I have yet to see any newspapers get sued successfully for using a medical term that is still in the popular lexicon.

You don't have to blindly follow the crowd into excess to think that an idea has some merit. Or are you still talking about extremists? If you're going to reference only extreme examples then I doubt there's going to be very much rational discourse...

[Blackheart]

Never mind. I see that you're only going to reference extreme examples.

Another example of why there aren't more moderates in office. People seem to quit using common sense once an issue becomes polarized...

It's Us against Them, instead of constructive compromise. Pity. It will probably be the downfall of western civilization...

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

I don't know, are there currently any Worshipers of said Goddess? Is it an active religion that people are going to think the City Government endorses? It doesn't matter if it OFFENDS someone. That's not the point. The point is whether or not it gives someone the impression that the city government is ENDORSING what the symbol represents. If you could reasonably make a case that the city government are a bunch of Athena Worshipers or Devotees of Diana, then it might be something to worry about.

First of all - New Jersey and New York are states. Second - the city of Los Angeles isn't endorsing a religion - it's part of the history of the city.

That whole first amendment thing.... No endorsement of religion. Sure people get carried away, but that's what the courts are for. Are you saying the system doesn't work? That they don't have the correct interpretation of the constitution?

Actually - the consitution says nothing about symbols. The only thing the Constitution protects is a national religon - or the prevention of the free exercise OF religion. Please show me in the Constitution where a cross should be banned. As I have said - America was founded on Christian prinicipals and is part of our history whether peopel like it or not. This is merely people trying to wipe out the history of the city.

[edit]let me clarify something here... The Constitution says NOTHING about keeping government FREE from Religion - it only says that the Government will not force a particular religion on the citizens. Religion - Christian religion to be specific - has ALWAYS been a large part of the American government. Whether people like it or not. It is part of the history of this country. It just does not mean that it is required of people to celebrate it - like it was in England. We do NOT have a STATE religion.

Amendment 1 -
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

by having a cross in the emblem of the city of Los Angeles - they were NOT establishing a religion nor were they requiring their citizens to celebrate that religion.
[/edit]

As for Angels, there's some room for fudge... Angels aren't representative of any particular religious orthodoxy... They exist in one shape form or fashion in many different religions... even some you wouldn't expect...

The term angles you know damn well is primarily used in Catholicism and in some other forms of Christianity and THAT is where the city gets it's name - NOT from any other religion's idea of angels.

You seem to do a good double speak here though - on one hand you condemn the cross - yet there are MANY organizations that use the cross as a symbol - not just religious and yet you defend the use of the name Angels arguing that it's used in many religions.

You could make an argument that angels are representative of the cities history also.. hence the name...

So what;'s your point - I wasn't saying they should change the name. I was merely saying - that if people find the cross to be offensive - what is next - the name of the damn city?

But how are you going to make an argument that a cross represents something DISTINCTIVE and relevant to the cities history? Sure it was a mission at one time. Before that it was indian territory... Like most of the other cities in the US that were established by Spain...

Well there you have it - you answered your own question. Amazing how you did that. The history of the city is that is was a mission. So why should it's history NOT be displayed and part of it's logo? Hell it's name is.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Never mind. I see that you're only going to reference extreme examples.

these aren't extreme examples - these are everyday things.

Another example of why there aren't more moderates in office. People seem to quit using common sense once an issue becomes polarized...

YOu're absolutely right - people do qwuit using common sense - that's why Political Correctness has gotten so out of control. Because no one can use common sense anymore.

It's Us against Them, instead of constructive compromise. Pity. It will probably be the downfall of western civilization...

No - soirry - the lack of free expression will be the downfall of Western civilition. The fact that we are no longer able to celebrate the things that made this country great (or western civilization great) for fear of offending someone. The fact that American history is being rewritten because some people didn't have as great a role in it as they would have liked to. Those things will be the downfall of Western Civilization.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Sorry, but I don't accept the newspaper's list. You may if you want, but why do you think that there's some kind of overarching authority inherant in the press? I have yet to see any newspapers get sued successfully for using a medical term that is still in the popular lexicon.

What medical term are you talking about? The word "deaf"? Maybe you should open your eyes to the stupid restrictions on speech anymore - including using the word "deaf". As for the newspaper's list - yes - there is a list that was published that the newspapers are supposed to follow in order to be considered "sensitive" to the feelings of others.

You don't have to blindly follow the crowd into excess to think that an idea has some merit. Or are you still talking about extremists? If you're going to reference only extreme examples then I doubt there's going to be very much rational discourse...

Hmmm - what may soudn extreme today - will be common place tomorrow - which will then be followed by further extremes. Maybe you don't know the concept of boiling a frog in hot water. Let me explain in case you haven't - you try putting a frog in boiling hot water and it will jump out. You put a frog in cold water and slowly raise the temperature to a boil and it will stay in there and boil to death. That is what is happening with PC. And that is what is happening with a lot of things and has been since the 70's. We're in the slow boil. Soon - everything will be generic - unless people stand up and put a stop to it. My feeling is that the pendulum has swung way to far to the left and is now swinging back to the right - and then it will again in the future swing back to the left. That is the way the country has worked since the beginning. I'm just hoping that certain things can be done away with - like the stupid PC crap.

[Falagar]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

So I'm glad that you accept the double standard - I however don't.

I eat double-standards for breakfast (as well as intolerance for dinner, and I like to take some unniceness as a late snack).

Well so much for trying to make a color blind society then. As long as people aren't treated as people - but only viewed in those contexts - then you can never get rid of racism - because there will always be one group expecting handouts and one resenting.

Of course people should be treated like people. How do you treat people? Individually, hopefully. Blacks (historywise) have had a hard time and been suppressed during most of their time in the "west". There was much prejudice against these people (due to the race-doctrine) and still is, and most blacks don't have the same starting-point as whites.

Actually - the word black was never negative. Although ANY word can be used as negative. Does referring to them as "African-American" make them less American? A white person is just an American - but a black person is "AFRICAN-American". It causes division and second class status as far as I'm concerned.

Read my post again. Were did I say that it was negative? I said it often was used negativly (as you pointed out), "at least here in Norway". Therefore, now that the blacks have status as equals I guess some peple feel the need to mark this by using other words. Also, point out where I promoted the use of "African-Americans". And they are "African Americans", just like they are "blacks". Both terms cause division on some level; perhaps we should remove all such terms and just refer to everybody as humans?

[Elfhelm]

The negativity and diviseness of this topic has done more to degrade the spirit of the holidays than political correctness ever could. Thanks, rightwingers, for the good will, yeah.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by I

The negativity and diviseness of this topic has done more to degrade the spirit of the holidays than political correctness ever could. Thanks, rightwingers, for the good will, yeah.

Sorry, I shouldn't have blamed all rightwingers. Here's one who sends holiday greetings:

"I send greetings to all those celebrating Hanukkah, the festival of lights. On the 25th day of Kislev on the Hebrew calendar, Jews around the world commemorate the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem more than 2,000 years ago. During this time of darkness, the Temple had been seized, and Judaism had been outlawed. Judah Maccabee and his followers fought for three years for their freedom and successfully recaptured Jerusalem and the Temple. Jewish tradition teaches that the Maccabees found only one small bottle of oil to be used for temple rituals, but that oil lasted eight days and nights. The miracle of this enduring light, remembered through the lighting of the Menorah, continues to symbolize the triumph of faith over tyranny.

"The bravery of the Maccabees has provided inspiration through the ages. We must remain steadfast and courageous as we seek to spread peace and freedom throughout the world. This holiday season, we give thanks to God, and we remember the brave men and women of our Armed Forces and their families. We also pray that all who live under oppression will see their day of freedom and that the light of faith will always shine through the darkness. Laura joins me in wishing you a blessed and Happy Hanukkah."

President Bush

[inked]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

The negativity and diviseness of this topic has done more to degrade the spirit of the holidays than political correctness ever could. Thanks, rightwingers, for the good will, yeah.

You err, O Elf
You err, O Elf
NO one made you read it!
You err, O Elf
You err, O Elf
Another liberal bleedin' !
The snow is wet or dry and cold
The truth is too when it be told
Repent O elf
Repent O elf
And leave behind the Dark Side!


sing it to O Tannenbaum until you smile!
It will make you FEEL better!
Happy Holidays!
Merry Christmas!

[Elfhelm]

LOL! Thanks for being lighthearted in your disagreement, inked!

Here, have some "merriment and music" hehehehe

http://www.whitehouse.gov/holiday/

[Sister Golden Hair]

Administrative note- After reading the last few pages of this thread, I have decided that it is in need of a clean up. Unfortunately I am unable to do that at this time because I am on another computer with limited access. So, to prevent any further flamebaiting or personal attacks, I am closing the thread until I have more time to go through the posts and edit them, at which time the thread will be re-opened. If the problem persists after that, then the thread will be closed permanently.