Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Earniel]

How so?

[Lotesse]

Are you kidding? The way Rian makes Khamul speak, with her elven relatives present, and even Mahtaliel comes up and interjects her opinions and self into the conversation, the fact that Tyaron throws insults like "coward" ewtcetera, the PUBLICITY of it all, Buz and Lilly being there and just watching their superior acting comPLETELY out of character, - I can go on and on here, but it seems so self-evident to me it feels RIDSICULOUS to even be asked "how does what these characters Rian controlled have any impact or bearing on how the story will progress, and whatever" oh, I cannot elucidate well, plus I'm staerting to get upset so PLEASE, can someone else who sees my points step in here - Gordis, can you help me here? I cannot seem to be making any friggin' sense.

[Gordis]

Well, it really affects the whole game, but I second Earniel's advice to calm down. No need to argue to death, before TD himself appears and reads the thread. He will have to decide, if he is satisfied with the result and the way this scene makes Khamul look. There is a lot of things he will have to change in HIS OWN posts, if he wishes to tone it down.

So, let us stop arguing. Let us consider this scene POSSIBLY under revision (the same way as Val's talkative sword post) and move to other things. Please, try not to refer to this scene in your today's posts. Tomorrow we shall know what TD has to say.

We can continue with other things, lectures, race, Zimra, Arastud, whatever.

Agreed?

[Earniel]

I'm sorry if this upsets you so, I don't mean to. But I can't help having a different opinion of the situation.

Considering how Khamul admonished RÃ*an at the reception, I don't think he acts that much out of character. But then, the final judge on that is TD.

[Lotesse]

I prefer to hold off completely writing anything more, indefinitely. We'll see what TD says. I'll stop talking about it. If there's no real, believeable resolution at that time, (regarding post #461)I'm afraid I won't want to continue in this RPG.

[Gordis]

Yes, Lotesse, calm down, please. Believe me, I understand your point and share it, but no need to argue so vehemently or to get so upset. Let Khamul-TD fight his own battles and face the consequences of his own mistakes, be he only fourteen or not.

[The last sane person]

Gah, cool it Lotesse. Even so, Khamul and by extension TD can fix up their posts, and it doesnt seem to out of character for Khamul to make a scene in public. After all, he chastised Rian at the reception, (I had to go back and re read that post in order to realize that) and he hasnt been played as a cool, down to earth second.

TD has played him as a hot head, with no tact and very little sense of what social graces must be put into play when around humans. Perhaps all that time around Orcs has tampered with his manners.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

... the fact that Tyaron throws insults like "coward" ewtcetera,

I just have one second because company is over but the "coward" was in the dialect of Gondolin, and was NOT understood by anyone but Alagos and Rian, and possibly Mahtaliel. That is VERY important.

[Lotesse]

**** Perhaps Buz understands the dialect of Gondolin. He can inform Khamul of the extent to which he has been insulted.

[Lotesse]

Buz can do so, in fact, after the elves leave the scene. Then Khamul can inform the Morgul Lord of all that went down. I wonder how THAT would fly.

[Rían]

Are any of the Nazgul older than 3,000 years? I think if you guys can communicate with thoughts, that it's only fair that the elves of Gondolin can have a dialect to communicate in that the Nazgul don't understand, esp. since the city was destroyed 3,000 years ago, and Tolkien says very few people outside Gondolin have heard it. We have a backstory why Mahtaliel knows a little of it.

[The last sane person]

Your right on that, exactly how old ARE these wraiths?! When did Sauron start giving out these acursed rings?

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

Your right on that, exactly how old ARE these wraiths?! When did Sauron start giving out these acursed rings?

Everyone,

Sauron took the Seven and the Nine in 1697, Second Age. The Nazgûl made their first appearance in 2251, Second Age. With this information, you can arrive at your own opinions at ages.

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda's timeline, Gondolin fell in Year 510 of the Sun, in the First Age.

See http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/chronicle.html

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Gordis

To start with, Rian said herself that the whole scene was her idea, suggested by PM to TD, while TD only went along, being a nice and polite young man he is.

You play your OWN characters very WELL. But you make TD play HIS character in an unacceptable way.

I can't and wouldn't "make" TD do anything. He and I conversed over several PMs before the posts, and we have given each other full power of edit, and we've adjusted our dialog that we wrote for the other person.

And, indeed, Khamul actions go blatantly AGAINST his Captain's orders.

What must the ML now do? Demote Khamul forever, obviously, if NOT WORSE. Now can I do that? No. Khamul is always Second to the Chief. It is Tolkien Canon. Demoting or killing him is like killing Lord Elrond at the beginning of the Third Age - impossible.

Of course, the last word is TD's. But he must realize the consequences of Khamul actions.

How does a conversation with his major domo outside his door, NOT heard by anyone else outside of their group, and to ALL outside appearance a polite conversation (since the words are NOT overheard by outsiders), and the human Nazgul unable to understand the ELVEN dialect of a SECRET elven city that fell 3,000 years ago so they don't know what Tyaron said about "coward", make Khamul subject to demotion? I don't understand how it is going "blatantly" against his captain's orders To me, it looks like Khamul handled a tough situation very well, and exactly IN ACCORDANCE with his captain's orders - NO scene, getting in some smooth insults, and firing an elf that he never hired in the first place. Maybe Rian talked too much, but I covered that with a brief pause on his part as he thought with pleasure on Melwen and what happened to her.

Perhaps what happened here is that because I didn't write it clearly enough, more than one person thought it was a big scene in the streets, when it most definitely was NOT! Also, apparently some people thought Khamul understood the dialect of Gondolin, when he did NOT. I went back and edited things to make those things more clear.


Udu - thanks for the timeline

EDIT - just as an interesting aside, our company tonight was ... bilingual! (I didn't hear any Elvish, tho... )

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

IMO it is important to have it outside. It will mean Khamûl will have to keep relativly calm, and restrain himself from killing anyone. He even told Alagos that he would not start a fight with him. I agree with Rian that Khamûl has not made an ass of himself. I have tried to play Khamûl so that he is, as Gordis said, cunningly evil, and I have tried to that in this scene as much as I have in others. I do not see how Khamûl is out of charcter in this scene. There is one part I would like Rian to edit, and I will PM her about it.
I would also like to remind everyone that there own charcter is there own. IMO people should only ask others to edit when it directly contradicts there own charcter's personality eg. having Ray or Marty to kill Valandil, or when it is completly unacceptable. I do not see how this scene is either. If so please tell me or Rian and we will be more than happy to edit. People will have different views on how different charcters should be played, but how they are is up to the Mooter who plays the charcter, not to Mooter's who don't. By all means suggest ways to impove character's, but I think saying other peoples charcter's need to be changed is not fair on he Mooter who owns that charcter. I have worked quite hard to get Khamûl into the charcter he is, and I think I have played him reasonably well. But if I am completley wrong then tell me and I will change him completley.

[Gordis]

Well, TD, if you are satisfied with the scene, than leave it as it is. Tempers flared yesterday night, but well, your word is final. So it stands.

I only have a tiny suggestion, don't make Khamul shout out of the window at the elves. Let him run down and face them. That will make the scene FAR less conspicous. It is up to you, of corse, I will not insist.

It seems that Lotesse (or more precisely rpg-Vivvie) is very fond of Khamul still, even if he is such a villain and even after he turned her down, and will stay by him, whatever happens. I think the rpg-Khamul should know that and act accordingly.

So, the matter is solved. Peace now, All?

[Earniel]

You are and will always be master over your own character, TD. I don't think he is out of character in this particular scene and I think you have always played Khamul well.

[Gordis]

Great post,Udu,.
I loved that joke:

All of us spent the evening engaged in intellectual pursuits and discussing philosophy. One must not believe everything one hears,� he said, smiling, amused at his own private jokes.

“Why did the others not tell me about the dancing girls every night,� he thought. “They are holding out on me!�

Do you believe there is some truth in the sewing circle tales?

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Do you believe there is some truth in the sewing circle tales?

Udu hopes so.

Miriel and Malaphel are delightful little gossips,and undoubtedly each sister is jealous of the other. Udu will be most discreet around them.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Dancing girls for the professors every night? Now that would be awkward...

Funny though.