09-23-2006, 04:37 AM | #381 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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Sorry, I edited my post .
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Does this mean it's all right that, unprovoked, they attacked the Byzantines and ripped away most of their empire in a bloodbath? They also clobbered the Sassanid Empire, a major force of the time. That empire they completely demolished, again, unprovoked. They took over huge, huge swaths of territory in holy war. So that's a very significant historical point that was skipped when they said in those two paragraphs that Islam simply "spread" over all that territory. It didn't mention that it "spread by the sword in holy jihad." Quote:
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The successor to Muhammad was named Abu Bakr, and he attacked all the rebels all over again and forced them to return to the true Muslim faith in the "ridda wars," which translates to the "apostasy wars". Those two ridda wars were very extensive and bloody, a terrible (though temporary) shattering of the Muslim faithful.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-23-2006, 12:56 PM | #382 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...OH BOY, real facts, what are some going to do with that now......hmmmmmm
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09-23-2006, 07:39 PM | #383 | |||
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Part 2
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Part 2 How did the spread of Islam affect the world? The Muslim community continued to grow after Muhammad’s death. Within a few decades, vast numbers of people across three continents – Africa, Asia, and Europe, had chosen Islam for their way of life. One of the reasons for the rapid spread of Islam was the purity of its doctrine – Islam calls for faith in only One God. This, coupled with the Islamic concepts of justice and freedom, resulted in a united and peaceful community. As millions of people embraced Islam, they brought with them the heritage of ancient civilizations like Egypt, Greece, India, Persia, and Rome. The synthesis of Eastern and Western ideas and of new thought with old, brought about great advances in the various fields of study. Scholars working in the Islamic tradition developed and excelled at art, architecture, astronomy, geography, history, language, literature, mathematics, medicine, and physics. Many crucial systems such as algebra, the Arabic numerals, and the very concept of zero (crucial to the advancement of mathematics), were formulated by Muslim scholars and shared with medieval Europe. This sharing of knowledge was a direct cause of the Renaissance. Muslims invented sophisticated instruments that made future European voyages of discovery possible: the astrolabe, the quadrant, and detailed navigational maps. What is the Qur’an? Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the very word of God Almighty: a complete record of the exact words revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to Prophet Muhammad. The Qur’an is the principle source of every Muslim’s faith and practice. It deals with all subjects that concern us a human beings, including wisdom, doctrine, worship and law; but its basic theme is the relationship between God and His creatures. At the same time, the Qur’an provides guidelines for a just society, proper human conduct, and equitable economic principles. “He (God) has sent down to you the Book (the Qur’an) with truth, confirming what was revealed before; And He sent down the Torah (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this as a guide to humankind; and He sent down the Criterion (the Qur’an)…” (Qur’an 3:3-4) What are the “Five Pillars” of Islam? The “five pillars” of Islam are the basis of Muslim life. Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said: “Islam is founded on five pillars: to testify that ‘there is no deity except God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God;’ to establish the ritual prayers; to give charity (to the needy); to perform the pilgrimage to the House (of worship in Makkah); and to fast during the month of Ramadan.” The Testimony of Faith “There is no deity except God; Muhammad is the messenger of God.” The simple declaration of faith is required of all those who accept Islam as their chosen way of life. The words have to be uttered with sincere conviction and under no coercion. The significance of this testimony is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God; and this is achieved through following the example of the prophet Muhammad. Prayers A key element to Muslim life is the obligatory, ritual prayer. These prayers are performed five times a day, and are a direct link between the worshipper and God. This very personal relationship with the Creator allows one to fully depend, trust, and love God; and to truly achieve inner peace and harmony, regardless of the trials one faces. Charity An important principle of Islam is that everything belongs to God; wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. Obligatory charity or zakah means both “purification” and “growth”. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a proportion for those in need and for the society in general. Like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth. Fasting Fasting in the month of Ramadan is an essential part of being a Muslim. Muslims fast from dawn until sundown – abstaining from food and drink, and guarding themselves from destructive behaviour. Ramadan is a special time for Muslims everywhere; a time for reflection and greater spirituality. The end of Ramadan is observed by a holiday – Eid al Fitr. On this day, Muslims from all over the world celebrate with prayers and exchange gifts. Pilgrimage The Pilgrimage to Makkah (the Hajj) is a once-in-a-lifetime obligation for those who are physically and financially able. Over two million people from all corners of the globe go for Hajj each year, making it the largest gathering for peace. Hajj provides a unique opportunity for people from different nations to meet one another. The rites of Hajj include visiting the Ka’bah and standing together on the wide plains of ‘Arafat (a large expanse of desert outside Makkah). Here pilgrims pray for God’s forgiveness, in what is often considered a preview of the Day of Judgement. The Hajj provides a unique opportunity for Muslims to reflect on their lives and return to their families and homes spiritually rejuvenated.
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09-23-2006, 09:16 PM | #384 | |||
Elf Lord
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Last time my problem was with the last two paragraphs, but now it's with the first two . The rest has a good deal of validity.
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There was neither peace nor unity in the ancient Muslim world, either internally or externally. While civil disputes were resulting in deaths of their caliphs and civil war at home, their jihad against infidels was causing the destruction of all their neighbors. The biggest problem I have with this Reader's account is really that it refuses to acknowledge that all of this expansion was the result of violent conquest. But again, I can well understand their doing this. They don't want anyone seeing Islam as a violent religion, and they don't want the actions of modern terrorists connected with their religion. That is why this history is completely ignored in this Reader. But it is a very large lie. Quote:
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There were many, many brilliant achievements in the early Muslim world, and the list that they make is very good and accurate. The Muslims were certainly far superior to Europe technologically at that time. They were far superior to Europe in medicine and art. Their culture was more sophisticated. They created much that was beautiful and wonderful. It's worth noting that the Europeans had completely forgotten about the ancient Greek roots of their civilization. They had forgotten all about Homer and Aristotle and the others, and the Muslims reintroduced those great authors to them, because the Muslims had preserved that history. The Muslims had many, many great and splendid aspects to their culture.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-24-2006, 05:11 AM | #385 | ||||
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Remind me to respond to the rest of your post when it isn't two in the morning. I just have two quick(ish) comments.
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IMO this doesn't reflect badly on Islam, but on the people of the time. Still, the history in the Reader seems simplified. I think they don't want to have a complex analysis of 1400 years of history in a short booklet. I also think they don't want to say anything about the violent aspects of the history of Islam, for fear of adding to the perception that Islam itself is actually a violent religion. The booklet seems to take the other extreme - that no Muslim ever did anything violent ever. (I can't really blame them, given current attitudes, but it would have been nice if the Reader was a tad more balanced.) Quote:
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09-24-2006, 11:26 AM | #386 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Islam was spread by war, war and more war.
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09-24-2006, 11:28 AM | #387 | ||||||
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Here's a map of their conquests: http://www.answers.com/topic/age-of-caliphs-gif Quote:
So if one doesn't think that those attacks were just and right in God's eyes, one has to think that it reflects poorly on Islam as a religion. If Christians nowadays all thought (or the vast majority thought) that the witch burnings and the heretic-persecution and the religious wars of our past were all justified, that would reflect poorly on Christianity as a religion. Quote:
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That has its roots way back in Muhammad's teachings and example, and that of the early Muslims who followed him.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-24-2006, 12:08 PM | #388 |
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It is sad that the amazing truths about the religion are either denied those who practice it or denied by those who practice it.
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09-24-2006, 01:28 PM | #389 |
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On the other hand, if the true nature of jihad was commonly accepted among the majority of Muslims, we'd be in a really bad position. The lie keeps many Muslims peaceful and thus enhances world stability. So I don't know what to make of that, completely. I'll have to dwell on it more. I hate lies, but this lie has some very positive effects.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
09-24-2006, 05:21 PM | #390 | ||||
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What do you mean Spock? Okay, I agree with you, Lief, that they shouldn't have lied about the history. Quote:
I mean, what is the true nature of jihad anyway?
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09-24-2006, 09:15 PM | #391 | |
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Many modern Muslims practice the "greater jihad," but not the lesser. In the Quran, Muhammad taught that his followers must fight under certain circumstances, and that those who refrain from engaging in this jihad were not rejecting Allah's will. When Muslims in Muslim lands are attacked, all other Muslims are obliged to enter the "lesser jihad" on their behalf. The world is divided into two cities, the City of War and the City of Faith. True Muslims all live in the City of Faith. All infidels are in the City of War. Never is peace allowed with that city, but war must always be held against it. Only temporary truces are allowed with the City of War, and these are to be immediately abandoned if Muslims are attacked. Essentially, Muslims were commanded to engage in violent warfare with the world. Why do I believe that this is the correct interpretation of the lesser jihad? I think it's obvious that this is the correct interpretation because Muhammad and his earliest followers, those that all modern Muslims are agreed were pure in their actions, practiced it. Muhammad and his early followers are responsible for (at the very least) the blood of hundreds of thousands of people whom they attacked, unprovoked. Except for the Qur'aysh, a tribe in Arabia. They persecuted Muhammad and his followers, which certainly is provocation. But if Muslims nowadays want to reinterpret jihad in a modern way that is different from that which Muhammad taught, and if they want to interpret the Shariah Law in non-literal ways or refrain from practicing parts of it, that's their own affair. And I think that by doing so, they are refraining from acting in ways that are evil, which in my opinion is good. It isn't Muhammad's Islam, but in my mind, that's good!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-24-2006 at 09:19 PM. |
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09-25-2006, 01:08 AM | #392 | ||
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Thanks for your explanation about jihad.
In the second paragraph here, you point out that Muhammad said Muslims have to fight under certain circumstances, but it's okay to refrain from joining the lesser jihad. In the third paragraph, you say that all Muslims must wage constant war against infidels. But if this were true, then Muhammad would have said that you must always engage in the lesser jihad, not that you only have to under certain circumstances. What you said earlier makes me think your interpretation of the lesser jihad is not correct. I imagine a Muslim scholar would refute it further. Why are you so sure that this is the correct interpretation? Muhammad's practice of Islam is "pure" (or whatever) because of his teachings and actions towards other Muslims, which is what Islam is about. Note that jihad is not one of the Five Pillars.
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09-25-2006, 02:37 AM | #393 | ||||||||
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I have sources that describe the City of Faith and the City of War, and say only truces are allowed with the City of War. This means that offensive war against the infidels is mandatory.
I have other sources that say lesser jihad is mandatory when Muslims are attacked, which means defensive warfare to protect others of the faith is required. Quote:
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But the really, really big reason why I'm so sure that this is the correct interpretation is that history records that Muhammad and all his earliest followers engaged in an all-out attack on every nation and empire around them. Everywhere that there were infidels, they attacked them and conquered them, making People of the Book pay jizya tax, convert or die, and putting to the sword or converting those who weren't People of the Book. The fact that this is what they did in practice is proof to me that modern liberal Muslim scholars are wrong when they say jihad is not violent or is solely defensive. And it's proof to me that the modern fundamentalist Muslim scholars and religious leaders are right when they say that the Prophet urged offensive warfare. Though they are convinced that they also have defensive justification for their jihad. 9/11 and modern terrorist actions did not convince me that Islam is violent. When I originally conducted my research on the origins of Islam, I didn't know much at all about the religion. But I was powerfully convinced that it was violent by the history I read about their rise to world power. The origins of Islam show its true nature (or at least its old nature, and the part of its nature we see exhibited still amongst extremists today), and they are incredibly violent. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-25-2006 at 02:42 AM. |
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09-25-2006, 07:51 AM | #394 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Lief: I'm amazed at your staying power. Good work (honestly).
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09-25-2006, 01:59 PM | #395 | |
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09-25-2006, 02:09 PM | #396 | ||
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... Just kiddin'. Quote:
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09-25-2006, 02:15 PM | #397 | |
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09-25-2006, 02:26 PM | #398 |
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Fie on you, sir! That post stinks of libel!
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09-25-2006, 04:42 PM | #399 |
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Here's a very interesting article:
http://www.brookings.edu/fp/cuse/ana...ce20060210.pdf ...Haven't finished reading it myself, but it seems pretty fair.
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09-25-2006, 05:57 PM | #400 | |
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What we'd have to do is start a group of Muslims that want to protest the radical ones....
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