11-21-2005, 02:51 PM | #381 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
But it seemed to me that he was speaking of degrees of goodness and badness being the same. Maybe I misunderstood.
I'd certainly agree that all belief systems have lead to both good and bad things. But I'd also say that some have led to more good than others, and some to more bad than others. Would you agree?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-21-2005, 02:51 PM | #382 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
the source of the problem mostly lies in what one might call "absolute belief" in one's particular system... only those who believe their system must be the true reality of the world is going to sacrifice their own life for a cause they think is just... a casual believer who is not even sure there is an afterlife is very unlikely to toss this life aside this does not mean that "absolute believers" of any of these systems (or others) have to be fanatical, it just means that they have the ability to become fanatical, especially when they live in an extreme and violent environment if muhammed, for example, had never existed, and all of the middle east was christian other than the jewish presence in israel, i highly doubt the situation would be terribly different if all the other factors remained the same: authoritarian governments, extreme social inequality, a very violent history, massive natural resources controlled by a small proportion of the population, etc. focusing on the muslim belief itself is a mistake, as well as being a pointless endeavor, because you are much more likely to be able to change any one of the problems i listed than to change someone's belief system... even if you think that belief system itself is part of the problem
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
11-21-2005, 03:50 PM | #383 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
And now for Richard Pryors Advice on this subject
...You watch out for them Double Muslims...
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-21-2005, 06:13 PM | #384 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
I think that we can't say which has done more good or bad between Christianity and Islam because we're not looking at it historically. (I know you weren't saying that, this is my thought on the subject.) I also don't think we need to answer that question. What's important that those who are doing good, and there are a lot of people, continue to do so. We don't need to keep score. Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
11-21-2005, 07:14 PM | #385 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I know what you're saying, but I don't think not watching and analyzing things is right, either...
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
11-21-2005, 10:30 PM | #386 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
11-21-2005, 11:10 PM | #387 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
Everyone focuses on the extremist offshoot sects of Muslims who do the suicide bombings to make their point, but does anyone recall (o.k., not LITerally, but) the Crusades, and Spanish Inquisition, and all the other countless crimes against humanity that were committed throughout history by - you guessed it, CHRISTIANS. Jews aren't always fair, either. So are we gonna sit in self-important ivory towers and point fingers at one particular religious group and say "oh, we're better than them because A., B. and C.?" Give me a break. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Personally, I dislike organised religion as a rule, but I respect those who hold beliefs for the person or people that they ARE, with or without some particular dogma they might adhere to.
__________________
Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
11-22-2005, 08:48 AM | #388 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
hmm, The Crusades were partly a Christian world response to Muslim attacks/advances and take over.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-22-2005, 10:33 AM | #389 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
11-22-2005, 10:55 AM | #390 |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 3,891
|
The Christians during the Middle Ages were quite agressive too. And think of the battles that were faught between Catholics and Protestants.
Both Christianity and Islam have a bloody history.
__________________
An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
11-22-2005, 11:20 AM | #391 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
yeah, and the athiests reap the bounty.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-22-2005, 05:17 PM | #392 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
This statement, to me, says that somehow atheists benefit from violence between two groups of Christians.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
11-22-2005, 05:33 PM | #393 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
yep. no investment in beliefs nor customs nor tradition as the "established religions" so unbelievers of anything do benefit.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-22-2005, 05:36 PM | #394 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
11-22-2005, 05:55 PM | #395 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Firstly, (though the violence in Northern Ireland* does not even cause this) the disestablishment of organised religion would have a neutral effect on atheists, as they are not members of any religion. What possible benefit would an atheist gain? Atheists generally don't want anything bad to happen to religions, they merely don't share their beliefs. Secondly, it is completely insensitive and offensive to suggest that atheists would benefit from violence. (Though Brownie seems much less offended than I am. ) *Jonathan's comment of "And think of the battles that were faught between Catholics and Protestants" made me think of the ongoing violence in Northern Ireland.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
11-22-2005, 06:23 PM | #396 | |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 3,891
|
Quote:
__________________
An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
|
11-22-2005, 11:08 PM | #397 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'd put in mad faces but I had to use Netscape to get to the Moot tonight.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 11-22-2005 at 11:12 PM. |
||
11-22-2005, 11:33 PM | #398 | |||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think it's much more likely that people not directly involved in the fighting will have compassion for those impacted, or at the very least, not have an opinion. Only in a few callous people do I imagine they actually feel benefited. I do agree though, that people will be concerned about the impact of the violence on their own lives.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
11-23-2005, 10:43 AM | #399 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
|
never mind
Last edited by Hasty Ent : 11-23-2005 at 10:47 AM. |
11-23-2005, 10:56 AM | #400 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Just for the record: atheists tend to get killed when large religions collide. There is no correlation whatsoever between atheists getting rich and Christians (or Muslims) dieing. Religious wars hurt everybody.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Increased Islamic Influence in European Nations | inked | General Messages | 198 | 03-20-2011 06:36 AM |
muslims PART 2 | Spock | General Messages | 805 | 02-03-2011 03:16 AM |
The media | Butterbeer | General Messages | 102 | 11-07-2006 12:54 PM |
Was Hitler Christian,Athiest,Savior-Madman) FACTS welcomed along with your opinions | brownjenkins | General Messages | 203 | 08-07-2006 05:48 PM |
RELIGIOUS Debate on Terroristm-who, why, etc. | Spock | General Messages | 215 | 09-06-2005 11:56 PM |