did sam go to Valinor???

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by trolls' bane
Wow. Wish I knew that. Where do people get those letters any way, are they in some sort of book?

Go here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

[Gamigar]

Originally posted by matthew
After reading the LotR, one of my biggest questions has been if sam did go to valinor. I mean, tolkien didnt leave much hanging, but the only clue was frodo mysteriously saying " your time may come". so for a long time I had no idea. but now,after finishing the war of the ring, i feel like tolkiens intended epilogue did imply sams eventual departure. But i still want to hear everyone elses opinion on this.

Yes sir, yes sir he did.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Gamigar
Yes sir, yes sir he did.

Yes, isn't it in the Appendicies? Sam gives the Red Book of Westmarch to Elanor and goes into the West, I think.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Yes, isn't it in the Appendicies? Sam gives the Red Book of Westmarch to Elanor and goes into the West, I think.

Yes and it's posted earlier in this thread

Here is what I posted:

There is more to it as well, this is from the Appendices:

In year 61 of the 4th age:
Death of Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the Sea, last of the Ring-bearers.

In year 120 of the 4th age:
In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a greay ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over the Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

[Elvengirl]

While on the subject, where does Tolkien say that the spirit goes once their bodies die? Does he explain the idea of Heaven?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
While on the subject, where does Tolkien say that the spirit goes once their bodies die? Does he explain the idea of Heaven?

well in Morgoth's Ring, Tolkien sort of tells that Men's spirits go to be with Iluvatar after they die (in the tale of Adanel which is in the Athrabeth). since Hobbits are a race of Men (I'm pretty sure) then that's where their souls would go too. As far as Dwarves go, I think that they believe that they stay in Mandos until the end of the world and then they help aule rebuild the earth.

[Nimbrethil]

But my biggest question is: If all "the ring owner" (like we say at germany) meeting again at Valinor?
When Gimli and Legolas arrive this land - Frodo, Bilbo and Sam too, were deap lond time.
in case Frodo became a longer life ... then he could meet Legolas and Gimli.

Nimbrethil
I´m sorry about my english - i think many mistakes... *lol*

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Nimbrethil
But my biggest question is: If all "the ring owner" (like we say at germany) meeting again at Valinor?
When Gimli and Legolas arrive this land - Frodo, Bilbo and Sam too, were deap lond time.
in case Frodo became a longer life ... then he could meet Legolas and Gimli.

Nimbrethil
I´m sorry about my english - i think many mistakes... *lol*

that's ok...I think thtat anyone who can speak 2 languages is awesome (I myself can speak a little french but not enough)

anyways...I don't think that any of the mortal ringbears could ever set foot upon aman (valinor) they were confined to Tol Eressea.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
that's ok...I think thtat anyone who can speak 2 languages is awesome (I myself can speak a little french but not enough)

anyways...I don't think that any of the mortal ringbears could ever set foot upon aman (valinor) they were confined to Tol Eressea.

Tuor did

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Tuor did

true, but didn't Iluvatar allow him to be joined with the Eldar? If that is true, then why couldn't Iluvatar have done that with all the Men who loved the elves???

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
true, but didn't Iluvatar allow him to be joined with the Eldar? If that is true, then why couldn't Iluvatar have done that with all the Men who loved the elves???

Yes he was allowed to be one of the Eldar Race, however he was still technically a mortal, I just wanted to disprove your point

I believe Iluvatar allowed Tuor, mainly because of everything he did for the Eldar and for his close tie to Ulmo. Plus, the arguement could be made that Tuor was the most important Man in the history of Men to help achieve the path Iluvatar wanted for them. With that said, Tuor was really the father of the Kings of Men. In addition, his marriage with Idril helped as well and if it wasn't for her, Tuor would not have gone into the West to begin with, as he didn't want to, but did so for her...

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Yes he was allowed to be one of the Eldar Race, however he was still technically a mortal, I just wanted to disprove your point

I believe Iluvatar allowed Tuor, mainly because of everything he did for the Eldar and for his close tie to Ulmo. Plus, the arguement could be made that Tuor was the most important Man in the history of Men to help achieve the path Iluvatar wanted for them. With that said, Tuor was really the father of the Kings of Men. In addition, his marriage with Idril helped as well and if it wasn't for her, Tuor would not have gone into the West to begin with, as he didn't want to, but did so for her...

point proven

wouldn't he have just withered away there becasue of the difference in his fea compared to the fear of Elves? did Idril know that she married a man and not an elf? I mean what WAS she thinking

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
point proven

wouldn't he have just withered away there becasue of the difference in his fea compared to the fear of Elves? did Idril know that she married a man and not an elf? I mean what WAS she thinking

She knew but, when their eyes first met they fell for each other and built from there, much to the dislike of Maeglin. He wouldn't have withered, because he was given immortality upon setting foot in the West. My only point was that he "technically" was a mortal in the sense of being born as one, but literally speaking, while there he was granted immortality

With that said, we are both "technically" right

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
She knew but, when their eyes first met they fell for each other and built from there, much to the dislike of Maeglin. He wouldn't have withered, because he was given immortality upon setting foot in the West. My only point was that he "technically" was a mortal in the sense of being born as one, but literally speaking, while there he was granted immortality

With that said, we are both "technically" right

ok truce

[matthew]

Hey. I speak 2 languages: english and quenya. (polin quete quenya????????) i'm not very good of course.