Matrix Revolution

[HOBBIT]

It did not 'suck'

But I do agree that this answered little and asked tons more.

Your post has many errors in it though.

they didn't answer whether zion was in the matrix or not (assuming not)

Um, yeah. Zion is obviously NOT in the matrix as is made clear in the second movie (they mention zion a lot in the first, but don't really say what it is). It is the real world underneath some city somewhere. But still - once they explained zion i NEVER thought it was in the matrix, why was this a problem for you? Plus, zion is so unmatrix like. And the humans have their plugs and wear funny clothes...um yeah.

How can you not see this? If you aren't sure whether or not zion is in the matrix, you must really not get any of the movie......won't even go into it more. Just in case you were confused, their ships and stuff aren't in the matrix either - they fly around in the sewers of the city. The whole city of Zion is full of human survivors that have been taken out of the matrix. where have you been?

or where the machines came from, or how they took over, or anything!

They kinda covered this in first movie. Humans built solar powered machines........big war.......blotted out sun.........machines defeat humans......... we really dont need morethan that.

And what's with the useless scene with the french guy?? And how did Trinity escape from there without being shot to pieces?

Oy vey, its not useless. This guy is one of the best characters in the film I wish there was more of him!

They need to go to him to get Neo back from the trainstation. Trinity gets out alive because she makes a deal with the Merrovingian to get Neo back - he is a program of his word.

And don't you see the connection between the frenchman and all the rogue programs? He protects them.

And why didn't they focus more on the in-between place between the matrix and reality

I don't think they really needed to. The whole point of that trainstation scene was to show that programs aren't all bad - they have feelings too! They can love and have good karma - those aren't human emotions! "Love is just a word"

They're child is an innocent program that does not hate humans, etc. We were meant to see all this.


Of course besides Bop's points being mostly wrong, I agreee that there were a ton of questions left unanswered and more created!

Like - Programs suddenly good?

Neo has powers in the real world?!!? Oracle: "neo, you get your power from the source.. ... . Oh , well ok then. That makes sense

How old is the world really? They are on their 5th matrix, right?

How and why is zion rebuilt? Did they supply the new zion people with weopons and ships? I always thought that the ships were left from the war against humans and machines - - but seeing as they were on like the 5th matrix and fifth zion, obviously the machines built them all for them...........question is: WHY? Just stop the cycle and no more problem.

Is Neo dead or what?

The oracle didn't really know everything at the end?

That little program girl changes the sunset for neo, what??

Will there be any more anomalies after neo?

And the basic: what happens now? How will zion be rebuilt? With help from machines? How long will they stay at peace?

The director guy says "all others who want out will be let out" or something, does he mean people who want out of matrix?? How would they even know they want out?? And where would all the extra humans go? Not that much room in zion - the whole rest of the world is in ruins!

Will the machines stop killing humans for energy?

I have tons more, but those are just a few from the top of my head.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Like - Programs suddenly good?

Well OBVIOUSLY not all programs are evil - look at the oracle.

Neo has powers in the real world?!!? Oracle: "neo, you get your power from the source.. ... . Oh , well ok then. That makes sense

Okay - unsure about the source - I'm going to have to watch all the movies back to back.

How old is the world really? They are on their 5th matrix, right?

How and why is zion rebuilt? Did they supply the new zion people with weopons and ships? I always thought that the ships were left from the war against humans and machines - - but seeing as they were on like the 5th matrix and fifth zion, obviously the machines built them all for them...........question is: WHY? Just stop the cycle and no more problem.

Is Neo dead or what?

The oracle didn't really know everything at the end?

That little program girl changes the sunset for neo, what??

Will there be any more anomalies after neo?

And the basic: what happens now? How will zion be rebuilt? With help from machines? How long will they stay at peace?

The director guy says "all others who want out will be let out" or something, does he mean people who want out of matrix?? How would they even know they want out?? And where would all the extra humans go? Not that much room in zion - the whole rest of the world is in ruins!

Will the machines stop killing humans for energy?

I have tons more, but those are just a few from the top of my head.

Well to answer all this - and what i was going to say to Thranduil/BB was that I think the repeat of history happened all over again. I'm unsure if they ever did truly win. Is it all going to start over again? Maybe THIS is the ending that keeps happening. How much did actually change? The humans are still under ground - the "director" doesn't say ALL humans will be released from the matrix as Tristan pointed out - only the ones who wish to be. Are they shown Zion and say - where do you want to live? Also - without the humans for energy - how can the machines survive? Like I said - I think the oracle was saying "I think we'll see Neo again" because this is the repeated history. The war will start again - it has to.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT


The director guy says "all others who want out will be let out" or something, does he mean people who want out of matrix?? How would they even know they want out?? And where would all the extra humans go? Not that much room in zion - the whole rest of the world is in ruins!

Simply because the world is a wreck now doesn't mean it can't be fixed. Looking at the machines power and technology, I'm quite sure that they could find some way to remove the layers in the skies that blocks out the sun and keeps things from growing. Also the machines I think will give the humans alot of help since neo a human gave his life to save the machines, okay humans but you get my point. (ex: showing neo on a sort of shrine at made by the machines, obviously showing that they respect him.) As for the sunrise girl, she was obviously some type of program that had power in the matrix, perhaps some type of enviromental protocal?

[HOBBIT]

Maybe THIS is the ending that keeps happening.

No, all the humans in zion would have to be killed and the matrix restarted - thats what happened previously. And the anomalie has to be killed - we don't know if neo is dead......

Zion was just rebuilt by the machines........


If you think about it, many aspects don't make all that much sense.

We don't know what happened with the Matrix - one can infer that Agent Smith screwed it all up, so maybe they started a new one anyway?

And for the good programs - we don't really know if the oracle is good or what her intentions are.. good programs really introduced in this third films.

And the machines at machine city deciding to help neo defeat smith and get peace? I'm assuming he made the deal with the director program..........

But again, programs have feelings? After killing smith, why not just destroy zion? Director implies that unlike humans, he is true to his word.......


Just odd.

[HOBBIT]

she was obviously some type of program that had power in the matrix, perhaps some type of enviromental protocal?

No, I don't think so.

The parents went to the frenchman because she didn't have a purpose and all programs with no purpose would be deleted.

They wanted to save her..........

So I don't think she was part of any environmental protocal.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
No, I don't think so.

The parents went to the frenchman because she didn't have a purpose and all programs with no purpose would be deleted.

They wanted to save her..........

So I don't think she was part of any environmental protocal.

It is not nescessarily always that the programs lack purpose. But they are found to have some sort of defect. (ghost and werewolves) Unseen by the director before used in the Matrix. Why would they be created if they lacked purpose?

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by thranduil
It is not nescessarily always that the programs lack purpose. But they are found to have some sort of defect. (ghost and werewolves) Unseen by the director before used in the Matrix. Why would they be created if they lacked purpose?

Yeah, but that is what the Indian prgrams tell us - that she has no purpose......

Which leads to another question: How do programs make children! makes very little sense , but ok.

[thranduil]

If trinity had stayed in zion, and never been killed (guessing that neo could even get to machine city) Would Neo still give up in the end and Sacrifice himself to destroy him and the agent smiths. As well as too save the human race. lol. But I say Trinity dying is a very key point to this movie that some people don't realize. If she was still alive I think Neo would keep on fighting and fighting and there would/could be no real end of the battle in the matrix with agent smiths.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
No, all the humans in zion would have to be killed and the matrix restarted - thats what happened previously. And the anomalie has to be killed - we don't know if neo is dead......

Zion was just rebuilt by the machines........

The anomalie was just as much Smith - he was the anomalie in the Matrix.

Whether all the humans in zion had to be killed and zion actually destroyed - I don't think they ever say. The only thing that I remember them saying in Reloaded - is that all the past Neo's failed in their goal. The goal of Neo was to defeat the machines - but he never did. So did he ever actually succeed in his goal this time? I don't think he did.

We don't know what happened with the Matrix - one can infer that Agent Smith screwed it all up, so maybe they started a new one anyway?

I don't think he screwed up the matrix. I think the Matrix survived. I think Smith was the anomalie that had to be destroyed - not Neo.

And for the good programs - we don't really know if the oracle is good or what her intentions are.. good programs really introduced in this third films.

I disagree that this is the first time good programs were introduced. Also - the girl and her parents weren't necessarily good or bad - they just were.

And the machines at machine city deciding to help neo defeat smith and get peace? I'm assuming he made the deal with the director program..........

I agree that Neo most likely talked to the director. I don't really think that the machines wanted peace.

But again, programs have feelings? After killing smith, why not just destroy zion? Director implies that unlike humans, he is true to his word.......

What was the deal though? Only those humans who want to leave the matrix will be released. This is only a temporary peace.

Now that people are bringing out things - I really will have to watch it again,

[thranduil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Yeah, but that is what the Indian prgrams tell us - that she has no purpose......

Which leads to another question: How do programs make children! makes very little sense , but ok.

alright if he said it, then thats the final say in the matter. i've not picked up on most of the dialog yet. still thinking about the Commander blast'n those sentinels!!

but as for your children question, just upgrades of the original progams, but some times they just don't turn out to be any better than the original, therefore I see your point "they have no Purpose"

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Yeah, but that is what the Indian prgrams tell us - that she has no purpose......

Which leads to another question: How do programs make children! makes very little sense , but ok.

Actually - I have always used the birth to death anology to describe the life cycle of programs - so to me that wasn't very odd.

[thranduil]

whos theory of programs having kids sounds the best. Mine or JD's??????????HHHAAAAAA!!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
whos theory of programs having kids sounds the best. Mine or JD's??????????HHHAAAAAA!!

Well actually - a module of a program may become big enough or have so much additional functionality after awhile - that it is branched off as a seperate program. A program that goes through version changes is just growing - from childhood to old age. Once it reaches it's usefullness and is replaced - it has died.

A child can be a branch off though when say an old program is completely rewritten in a new techology. For instance - desktop application being moved to a web application. It has inherited much the same functionality - but is a much different program. The original program is dead and buried after the new one goes into production.

[HOBBIT]

In reloaded the director tells neo that Zion has been desroyed four times in the past and then started with 22 (something like that) people that the anomalie chooses (the choosen one, other neo types) to create a new Zion.


Agent smith is not "the anomalie" Maybe by the definition of the word he is a anomalie, but not the anomalie in the matrix - neo was/is.

You can infer that smith screws up the matrix - the whole matrix feed being really messed up and the fighting scene with neo - the world looks messed up.

Neo also says to the machines that Smith has already taken over and messed up the matrix and he will soon take over the real world too......or something like that.

At the end - you don't know if that is a new matrix or what.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
In reloaded the director tells neo that Zion has been desroyed four times in the past and then started with 22 (something like that) people that the anomalie chooses (the choosen one, other neo types) to create a new Zion.

You may be right - I'll have to see Reloaded again. I don't think that Neo succeeded in his quest though. Also - if there were so many Neo's and scenarios before - why can't this just be another failed attempt to the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal was the destruction of the machines and the freedom of humans.

Agent smith is not "the anomalie" Maybe by the definition of the word he is a anomalie, but not the anomalie in the matrix - neo was/is.

Actually - I think they are both anomilies because there is the statement that Smith is Neo's opposite force. I can't remember the exact wording.

You can infer that smith screws up the matrix - the whole matrix feed being really messed up and the fighting scene with neo - the world looks messed up.

The matrix just repairs everything after the fight - as demostrated by the sidewalk repairing itself and the cat. At least that is my feeling. All that light that radiated out - was just all the smiths blowing up. There were so many smiths - they extended for blocks and blocks and blocks.

Neo also says to the machines that Smith has already taken over and messed up the matrix and he will soon take over the real world too......or something like that.

I don't remember Neo saying that Smith actually messed up the matrix - I thought he said he had overrun the matrix. That Smith had gotten out of control and now controlled the matrix (by taking over programs) and soon he would infect the machines if he wasn't stopped.

[Sheeana]

*sigh* Tristan, you missed my points altogether.

If you can be bothered - which I somehow doubt - this thread is a good read on why people thought Zion might be part of the matrix:

http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/s...atrix+reloaded

(part of the reason people thought zion was still in the matrix was because of neo's powers - which we find out is from the source...that is where the zion speculation comes from.)

Part of me wanting to know more about the machines, was secretly hoping that there would be more, that we still hadn'nt seen the bigger picture. Yes, I was aware of the stuff from the first movie, but I think it would have been better if they'd had some trickiness up their sleeves instead of Neo is God. I hoped that Zion and the 'real world' were still part of the matrix, as were the machines, and the real enemy was.... ??? See what I mean?

The french scene was completely unnecessary. Why didn't they go with more of the Eyes of the Oracle thing? instead of trinity losing her patience? And I don't care if he's a program of his word, it's still pretty ****ing unbelievable that trin et al just walked out, no problems.

I beg to differ on the in-between place: I would like to know more - like I do about the little girl who paints the sky. There's more there -- why didn't they get into it?

[HOBBIT]

I'll read that thread.....

I was thinking the real world may be like some other matrix, but not part of the matrix........

Yeah- he asks for the eyes of the oracle.....

does he mean literally her eyes or figuratively like her cognative ability??

He gives that up so easily - that would have been interesting.

edit:
oh its "Architect" and not "director" same difference

and I agree with you BOP - many things missing.......too much.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Sheeana
[ I hoped that Zion and the 'real world' were still part of the matrix, as were the machines, and the real enemy was.... ??? See what I mean?

[/B]

I disagree. Imagine you watch a movie and they have some adventure, only too wake up. This may be interesting once, but if after they wake up the first time they finish the rest of the movie. But only to wake up out of the real dream this time again at the end. (a dream inside a dream) It just gets old. You can only do something like this so many times.

[Cirdan]

Did anyone find it too plot convenient for the smithified traitor to be allowed to wander around killing people? "I should have beat the truth out of him when I had the chance" or something. Ya, I guess so. Maybe a guard would have been a goog idea.

Anyway, it was entertaining but not what I had hoped for. It seemed that too often the plot was driven by the video game rather than the other way around.

Did you notice the scene where the pilot on the Hammer had some of that electrical cable shield around his neck. They must have had some left over from making the sentinels.

I don't think you can expect an extremely tight plot from a movie like this. The first was great but these two sequels are just mainstream franchise material. Considering this I think it moved along well enough even though the battle scene in the gate were gratuitously long, but then I felt that way about Helm's Deep. It's just a movie standard now. Ever since Independence Day I've been averse to endless action scenes.

I was also dissapointed by the music. What happened to the edgy electronica? Instead there is canned movie incidental music. I guess there just isn't much new music that suites the theme.

How about the nipple twist in the frenchman's club. They were trying to guarantee the R rating, maybe?

I will be looking forward to see if there are alternate endings on the DVD. They must have made another beside the Scooby-Doo ending.

[Elfhelm]

For the record I think Zion is part of the Matrix and there is another layer of the onion to unpeel. It's a great discussion but I don't have much more to add.