2004 Oscars - Page 2

Cirdan · 09-30-2003, 12:17 AM

I meant to include something about sliding scales since obviously while one can select a dividing line it is not a black and white but grey areas (no, not technicolor, just a bit subjective). LotR is still a big budget film but it does relie more heavily on content onviously displayed by the choice of source material, hardly pulp fiction or even (sorry IP) comic books. That doesn't preclude an inspired adaptation of less inspired material but the priciple is sound.

LotR is somewhat more film than The Matrix (although both employ strong thematic content, relatively more complex relationships, abstract concept, etc) yet both are quite saturated with special effects, a high percentage of action sequences, marginally developed character relationships (Legolas and Gimli are reduced to the sort of Lethal Weapon buddy movie interaction), physical humor, so I don't see them as being in a different category, just different quantitatively.

Gangs of New York could arguably (though pointlessly) be something near to being wedged between the two. I found the Star Wars prequel trilogy to be more toward the Spiderman/Gladiator end of the spectrum. Braveheart was (still just IMO) better in the areas of character development than any of the aforementioned, but this is likely due to a more focused approach on central characters.

This difference has no affect on Academy awards candidacy, so sorry for the way OT diatribe. I did want to point out that the academy is prone, on occasion, to be just a bit political and image conscious (just a bit

), so they tend to compensate for the past year's criticisms of being to elitist, too populist, racist, provincial, too pandering, favoritist, and some other big words.

Pictures that are first at something, and not neccesarily best, get special consideration.

Pictures by people who are overdue get special consideration. (Opie)

Pictures with heavy themes (The Piano) get special consideration.

Pictures with box office reciepts too huge too ignore get more attention than they may deserve (Titanic).

Besides, it's a school assembly for grownups, with awards for best penmanship. The only thing that should really matter to you is do YOU think it's the best picture. The award is mostly for promotional use only.

hectorberlioz · 09-30-2003, 02:01 PM

sorry for the irellevency of this but...
my user cp will not show what threads i'm suscribed to anymore, it use to, but now...i dont know whats wrong..

Evenstar1400 · 09-30-2003, 05:07 PM

As Cirdan said...

"Pictures that are first at something, and not neccesarily best, get special consideration.

Pictures by people who are overdue get special consideration. (Opie)

Pictures with heavy themes (The Piano) get special consideration.

Pictures with box office reciepts too huge too ignore get more attention than they may deserve (Titanic)."

Ahem... RotK should fit into all of those categories....

First time anyone attempted to make LOTR into a movie...

Didn't win best picture for FotR or TT...

Definitely has some heavy themes...

And it made TONS of $ in the box office...

So who should win????

ROTK!!!!!!!!!

Cirdan · 09-30-2003, 07:44 PM

it (probably) will make a huge box office. Yes, I keep saying ought to win (even though I haven't seen it

), but than doesn't mean it will. They (the academy) doesn't check in with me as often as it ought.

Evenstar1400 · 10-01-2003, 06:53 PM

if rotk doesnt win....

would anyone join me in an angry mob (all lotr fans) to attack the academy until they make rotk best picture?

anyone at all???

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-11-2003, 04:37 PM

Should get Best Picture and Best director (overdue for PJ and boxoffice gross for the three films will exceed $3 billion worldwide).

But does it have any realistic chance for supporting actor or actress (and if so, who)?

Miranda Otto? [seems doubtful]
Perhaps the best chance is Samwise (can't remember his name).
He's impressed me more then the other Hobbits so far, excluding Bilbo's cameos.

Cirdan · 10-11-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evenstar1400
would anyone join me in an angry mob (all lotr fans) to attack the academy until they make rotk best picture?

I'll be content to throw popcorn at the screen, as I do every year.

Re: Best Supporting....

Viggo is technically a supporting character, but will get the bulk of the screen time for the final installment, so...

It's far too early too predict.

I say we reconvene after we've actually seen it.

Elvengirl · 10-11-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
[
Perhaps the best chance is Samwise (can't remember his name).

It's Sean Astin.

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-11-2003, 07:56 PM

Sean Astin!!!

Thanks, Elvengirl. (I guess short term memory goes first).

Actually I thought Sean Astin and Ian Holme seemed more like hobbits, while the others were more like actors playing hobbits (if that makes any sense).

Interesting point about VM. Would he be considered/have a better chance as a nominee for actor or supporting actor? And who makes that decision, the studio or the academy?

jerseydevil · 10-23-2003, 07:22 AM

Well - I didn't think that FotR or TT deserved even to be nominated for Best Picture - let alone when. The FotR was nominated there were a lot of good movies - Godford Park and A Beautiful Mind. I thought A Beautiful Mind deserved to win.

Based on Jackson's track record with the overall quality of the films - I still don't think he deserves to win. But I will reserve my perdiction until I ACTUALLY see the film.

Selwythe · 10-29-2003, 03:07 AM

Making judgments on whether RotK will win before watching the film? For all we know (and all we pray not to happen), Jackson could have just lost his touch and utterly bombed up the last film. What I'd find ironic is if RotK turns out worse than FotR or TTT but wins an Oscar because of the inclination to give the trilogy its recognition.

For the record though, has any movie sequel won Best Picture before? (I think the Godfather did...?)

I think too that RotK will be shut out of the supporting actors nominations (even if they prove to be outstanding), or if one or two of the cast are nominated, they'd be lightweight contenders. The film just has too large and diverse a cast for each character to receive enough attention. These categories are usually dominated by films with a few central characters that drive the story. Which characters drive LotR? Frodo? Aragorn? Gandalf? Sam? Somebody else? You can't point to one definitively. LotR is more a team-driven vehicle to me, and from my impression, supporting actor/lead actor Oscars are usually won by a definitive character you can automatically associate to the film and whose absence would utterly change the film. The actors in the latter usually leave a deeper impression. Say the nod was up for grabs between an actor from Spiderman and an actor from X-Men. I'd say the Spiderman actor wins the supporting actor award hands down.

Are the Oscars really going to be held on Feb 28? That's my birthday! A RotK win for Best Picture would be the best birthday gift I could have

In the meantime, I'll also be rooting for RotK to take home the MTV Movie Awards Best Picture, completing a 3-year sweep.

FoolofaTook · 10-30-2003, 09:10 PM

I hope RotK wins but it does have some competition. Mystic River, Lost in Translation, and Seabiscuit might make strong contenders.

hectorberlioz · 10-31-2003, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Mystic River, Lost in Translation,

no way these two will even make noms.

Quote:

and Seabiscuit might make strong contenders.

THAT IStrue

FoolofaTook · 11-02-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
no way these two will even make noms

I don't know...I wouldn't be surprised if Clint Eastwood gets nominated for Best Director

thranduil · 11-02-2003, 06:59 PM

1. If rotk is as true to the book as I have heard, Sean Astin will come out with best supporting actor.

2. Visual effects will be stunning and give matrix r&r a run for there money.

3. Best picture will be awarded to rotk.

4. all the rest of the awards, who cares.

hectorberlioz · 11-03-2003, 12:30 AM

Well I cant say Clint Eastwood wont get nominated, maybe he will. But Mystic River is not the type the academy would choose.
Never the less-even though i am an oscar freak-I could be wrong...

thranduil · 11-05-2003, 05:19 PM

I just saw matrix revolution. And I must admit it was a lot better than I thought. Tonz better than the second one. I wouldn't be suprised if it might snatch a few awards from ROTK.

b.banner · 11-05-2003, 07:51 PM

yeah right matrix would never win a oscar

Tuor of Gondolin · 11-05-2003, 08:10 PM

I just saw Matrix 3, let's put it this way, Keanu Reaves acting may be the highlight of the film. The "action" scenes are repetitive and seem to go on forever and there seem to be too many stereotypes of the characters for any awards relating to screenplay. It's special effects are interesting, but mostly only of one kind "evil machines."
I did like Matrix 1, but ROTK should do much better in Oscar contention then Matrix 3.

hectorberlioz · 11-05-2003, 10:27 PM

If Matrix gets anything its a Special Effects nomination. But the Original and the second were equally well done in special effects, so I dont think M3 will get any.

09-30-2003, 12:17 AM	#21
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	I meant to include something about sliding scales since obviously while one can select a dividing line it is not a black and white but grey areas (no, not technicolor, just a bit subjective). LotR is still a big budget film but it does relie more heavily on content onviously displayed by the choice of source material, hardly pulp fiction or even (sorry IP) comic books. That doesn't preclude an inspired adaptation of less inspired material but the priciple is sound. LotR is somewhat more film than The Matrix (although both employ strong thematic content, relatively more complex relationships, abstract concept, etc) yet both are quite saturated with special effects, a high percentage of action sequences, marginally developed character relationships (Legolas and Gimli are reduced to the sort of Lethal Weapon buddy movie interaction), physical humor, so I don't see them as being in a different category, just different quantitatively. Gangs of New York could arguably (though pointlessly) be something near to being wedged between the two. I found the Star Wars prequel trilogy to be more toward the Spiderman/Gladiator end of the spectrum. Braveheart was (still just IMO) better in the areas of character development than any of the aforementioned, but this is likely due to a more focused approach on central characters. This difference has no affect on Academy awards candidacy, so sorry for the way OT diatribe. I did want to point out that the academy is prone, on occasion, to be just a bit political and image conscious (just a bit ), so they tend to compensate for the past year's criticisms of being to elitist, too populist, racist, provincial, too pandering, favoritist, and some other big words. Pictures that are first at something, and not neccesarily best, get special consideration. Pictures by people who are overdue get special consideration. (Opie) Pictures with heavy themes (The Piano) get special consideration. Pictures with box office reciepts too huge too ignore get more attention than they may deserve (Titanic). Besides, it's a school assembly for grownups, with awards for best penmanship. The only thing that should really matter to you is do YOU think it's the best picture. The award is mostly for promotional use only. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

09-30-2003, 02:01 PM	#22
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	sorry for the irellevency of this but... my user cp will not show what threads i'm suscribed to anymore, it use to, but now...i dont know whats wrong.. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

09-30-2003, 05:07 PM	#23
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	As Cirdan said... "Pictures that are first at something, and not neccesarily best, get special consideration. Pictures by people who are overdue get special consideration. (Opie) Pictures with heavy themes (The Piano) get special consideration. Pictures with box office reciepts too huge too ignore get more attention than they may deserve (Titanic)." Ahem... RotK should fit into all of those categories.... First time anyone attempted to make LOTR into a movie... Didn't win best picture for FotR or TT... Definitely has some heavy themes... And it made TONS of $ in the box office... So who should win???? ROTK!!!!!!!!! __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

09-30-2003, 07:44 PM	#24
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	it (probably) will make a huge box office. Yes, I keep saying ought to win (even though I haven't seen it), but than doesn't mean it will. They (the academy) doesn't check in with me as often as it ought. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 09-30-2003 at 07:47 PM.

10-01-2003, 06:53 PM	#25
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	if rotk doesnt win.... would anyone join me in an angry mob (all lotr fans) to attack the academy until they make rotk best picture? anyone at all??? __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

10-11-2003, 04:37 PM	#26
Tuor of Gondolin Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 1,215	Should get Best Picture and Best director (overdue for PJ and boxoffice gross for the three films will exceed $3 billion worldwide). But does it have any realistic chance for supporting actor or actress (and if so, who)? Miranda Otto? [seems doubtful] Perhaps the best chance is Samwise (can't remember his name). He's impressed me more then the other Hobbits so far, excluding Bilbo's cameos. __________________ Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva!

10-11-2003, 07:56 PM	#29
Tuor of Gondolin Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 1,215	Sean Astin!!! Thanks, Elvengirl. (I guess short term memory goes first). Actually I thought Sean Astin and Ian Holme seemed more like hobbits, while the others were more like actors playing hobbits (if that makes any sense). Interesting point about VM. Would he be considered/have a better chance as a nominee for actor or supporting actor? And who makes that decision, the studio or the academy? __________________ Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva!

10-23-2003, 07:22 AM	#30
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Well - I didn't think that FotR or TT deserved even to be nominated for Best Picture - let alone when. The FotR was nominated there were a lot of good movies - Godford Park and A Beautiful Mind. I thought A Beautiful Mind deserved to win. Based on Jackson's track record with the overall quality of the films - I still don't think he deserves to win. But I will reserve my perdiction until I ACTUALLY see the film. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-29-2003, 03:07 AM	#31
Selwythe Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 221	Making judgments on whether RotK will win before watching the film? For all we know (and all we pray not to happen), Jackson could have just lost his touch and utterly bombed up the last film. What I'd find ironic is if RotK turns out worse than FotR or TTT but wins an Oscar because of the inclination to give the trilogy its recognition. For the record though, has any movie sequel won Best Picture before? (I think the Godfather did...?) I think too that RotK will be shut out of the supporting actors nominations (even if they prove to be outstanding), or if one or two of the cast are nominated, they'd be lightweight contenders. The film just has too large and diverse a cast for each character to receive enough attention. These categories are usually dominated by films with a few central characters that drive the story. Which characters drive LotR? Frodo? Aragorn? Gandalf? Sam? Somebody else? You can't point to one definitively. LotR is more a team-driven vehicle to me, and from my impression, supporting actor/lead actor Oscars are usually won by a definitive character you can automatically associate to the film and whose absence would utterly change the film. The actors in the latter usually leave a deeper impression. Say the nod was up for grabs between an actor from Spiderman and an actor from X-Men. I'd say the Spiderman actor wins the supporting actor award hands down. Are the Oscars really going to be held on Feb 28? That's my birthday! A RotK win for Best Picture would be the best birthday gift I could have In the meantime, I'll also be rooting for RotK to take home the MTV Movie Awards Best Picture, completing a 3-year sweep. __________________ If I say you have a beautiful body, will you hold it against me?

10-30-2003, 09:10 PM	#32
FoolofaTook Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ??? Posts: 214	I hope RotK wins but it does have some competition. Mystic River, Lost in Translation, and Seabiscuit might make strong contenders.

11-02-2003, 06:59 PM	#35
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	1. If rotk is as true to the book as I have heard, Sean Astin will come out with best supporting actor. 2. Visual effects will be stunning and give matrix r&r a run for there money. 3. Best picture will be awarded to rotk. 4. all the rest of the awards, who cares.

11-03-2003, 12:30 AM	#36
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	Well I cant say Clint Eastwood wont get nominated, maybe he will. But Mystic River is not the type the academy would choose. Never the less-even though i am an oscar freak-I could be wrong... __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

11-05-2003, 05:19 PM	#37
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	I just saw matrix revolution. And I must admit it was a lot better than I thought. Tonz better than the second one. I wouldn't be suprised if it might snatch a few awards from ROTK.

11-05-2003, 07:51 PM	#38
b.banner Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Trying to keep a hold on my temper so I don't turn into a big green guy. Posts: 572	yeah right matrix would never win a oscar __________________ "We are going to tickle some Aes Sedai under the chin, rescue a mule, and put a snip-nosed girl on the Lion Throne. Oh, yes. That's Aviendha. Don't look at her cross-wise or she'll try to cut your throat and probably slit her own by mistake."-Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...."-Dr. Bruce Banner HULK BATMAN THE FLASH

11-05-2003, 08:10 PM	#39
Tuor of Gondolin Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 1,215	I just saw Matrix 3, let's put it this way, Keanu Reaves acting may be the highlight of the film. The "action" scenes are repetitive and seem to go on forever and there seem to be too many stereotypes of the characters for any awards relating to screenplay. It's special effects are interesting, but mostly only of one kind "evil machines." I did like Matrix 1, but ROTK should do much better in Oscar contention then Matrix 3. __________________ Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin : 11-05-2003 at 11:04 PM.

11-05-2003, 10:27 PM	#40
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	If Matrix gets anything its a Special Effects nomination. But the Original and the second were equally well done in special effects, so I dont think M3 will get any. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

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