Backup plan

[Bombadillo]

I don't think their plan was foolish, just desperate. It would have been dumb for Frodo to go alone I think. It was a good think Sam's so strangely persistent.

But if they'd fail, they all knew that they'd be screwed. I think Gandalf would probably have taken full responsibility for it and attack Sauron in hopes of obtaining the Ring and destroying it right there in Mordor. And on his way he'd gather up a 'militia' of Maiar and Elves, maybe Gondorians and Rohirrim.

In short: Giant Battle

[Rosie Gamgee]

The whole point of the Fellowship was to protect Frodo. If something really dangerous came along to hurt Frodo, the others would all fight to the death to protect him and the Ring. I don't think they had an idea as to what to do if Frodo died. Because if Frodo got killed, the rest of them would already be dead trying to protect him. My theory, anyways.

I think Sam and Frodo going off along was indeed a smart thing to do, because, as pointed out various times in the book, Sauron would be looking for somekind of big attack, one that he could easily recognize and deal with. But the smaller the company going into Mordor, the better, for Sauron wouldn't pay them any mind.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Did the Fellowship have any kind of backup plan as to what to do about the Ring if Frodo had died during the quest? Also, wasn't it unwise for Frodo to go to Mordor with only Sam? The chances of them dying together were very great, and there would have been no one to continue the quest, and the Ring would have been taken by Gollum, or even Sauron. What do you think?

I didn't think that there was any backup plan, as there was no plan at all. Frodo just left the Fellowship and Sam joined him.
Of course it was unwise, but the whole quest was very impossible so going to Mordor alone wasn't too bad. Otherwise somebody could have recognized them.

[Lady of Rohan]

I don't think there was any back up plans. The only plan that was for certain, was Boromir and Aragorn going to Gondor, and that didn't even end up happening.

[Húrin Thalion]

This paln was the last resort of a fearsome trouble they ahd put themslelves in. The white councill and the leaders of the weswere utterly respnosible for the state of north western Middle earth which was, to say the least, sad. Waht tehy did may seem liek a reckless gamble, which it doubtlessly wasn't. What otehr opportunities did they ahve? A gamble is when there are other options to consider, safer ones which there weren't. Boromir thought so, jsut as his father. But if you read the council fo Elrond, they discuss every other possibility adn all are rejected.

Since it was a little of topic, I have removed it! Happy anway 'cause we beat Finland!

Húrin Thalion the TTF renegade!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank you Hurin, and as you can see, I have deleted my previous post.

[Millane]

Hurin i would agree that they had discounted all the options that they had to make finish Sauron, but destroying the ring was an end whereas Frodo and Sam were a means to the end, as far as i know there were no other means to achieve it... it couldnt have been done better because they did it.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

It seems clear there was no detailed plan as such, more of a general objective to be implemented as opportunity arose.

But as for the two hobbits going alone Aragorn, definitely after Boromir's death, would have preferred to go into Mordor with Frodo (in the circumstances as he knew them at the time probably correctly).
LOTR The Departure of Boromir
" 'I will follow the Orcs,' he said at last. "I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end; but if I seek him now in the wilderness, I must abandon the captives to torment and death. My heart speaks clearly at last: the fate of the Bearer is in my hands no longer. The Company has played its part."

And wouldn't a dwarf be useful in trying to get over or through the Ephel Duath?

One more thought. What about Gimli as alternate Ringbearer, since dwarfs seem to be resistant, in a manner, to Rings of Power?

[durin's bane]

I don't think Gimli would've made a good candidate, mainly because Dwarves would be more of a threat to Sauron than a Hobbit. Besides, aren't Dwarves known for being slightly greedy?

To me, there was no backup plan. Elrond left the Ring in the hands of Frodo because he knew Frodo was a worthy bearer. I think the plan was for Frodo to go alone (or with a friend) when the Fellowship reached Mordor. After all, I remember Elrond saying, "You may turn back whenever you wish", speaking for the other members of the Fellowship. If the plan was for the Company to destroy the Ring together, I think Elrond wouldn't have allowed Boromir and Aragorn to go to Gondor and the other members to turn back is they wanted. Elrond must've trusted the abilities of the Fellowship to get Frodo as far he needed, then he had to go alone. Of course, the incident at Amon Hen screwed up those plans, and Sam went with Frodo, which I think was for the better. :P

[Beor]

I'd say definitely for the better. If Frodo did leave without Sam, he would almost suredly have failed. Sam kept Frodos will to go on alive throughout the quest. Sam was the quests engine. Frodo was the vessel.

[Nurvingiel]

I think the members of the Fellowship tacitly agreed that they would all do it, until they were all slain.

As for who would actually be the Ringbearer... that would probably be decided only when something happened.

[Fimbrethil]

Why is there such speculation over this? If they had had a backup plan the don't you think Tolkien would have mentioned it? You guys are looking at this from the characters point of veiw...they're not real. Try looking at it from Tolkien's piont of veiw it was his book...of course they had no backup plan because Tolkien was writing the book and he made everything work out the way he wanted it to. Of course this my just opinion and my way thinking. I'm sorry I have dissruppted your world...please go back to fiction now.

[Nurvingiel]

Just because Tolkien didn't write Frodo or anyone saying "If I am killed etc. etc." They just had a tacit agreement. Not everything needs to be written in the book, that's what makes it interesting. It's fun to speculate about what was hinted at or implied.

[Ilúvatar]

Originally posted by Gamigar
Ah, you make a good point. But if Aragorn would keep Gollum away the ring may have never been destroyed, because Frodo himself did not destroy it. In fact at the end he was just gonna keep it, the only reason it was destroyed is because both Frodo and Gollum were greedy and wanted to keep it.

Well that's the great irony of the whole book. The "hero" actually never destroyed the ring or fulfilled the quest himself. Gollum was the unwitting hero.

I have come, " he (Frodo) said. "But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight.

....

"Precious, precious, precious!" Gollum cried. "My Precious! O my Precious!" And with that, even as his eyes were lifted up to gloat on his prize, he stepped too far, toppled, wavered for a moment on the brink, and then with a shriek he fell. Out of the depths came his last wail Precious, and he was gone.

Gollum's role is foreshadowed when Gandalf tells Frodo...

I have not much hope that Gollum will be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least.

Now the question is, DID Gandalf truly know the role of Gollum? He also foresaw the danger to himself of going into Moria.

There was no true backup plan, for without the Ring being destroyed, all was lost anyway. Who else would have destroyed it and could they have overpowered Frodo and made him destroy it? I doubt it. Frodo technically failed in the end and Gollums fate was truly tied to the Ring, as Gandalf foresaw.

Also there is this. Gandalf convinces Elrond to let Merry and Pippin come along, especially Pippin.

"There remain two more to be found," said Elrond. "These I will consider. Of my household I may find some that it seems good to me to send."

"But that will leave no place for us!" cried Pippin in dismay. "We don't want to be left behind. We want to go with Frodo."

"That is because you do not understand and cannot imagine what lies ahead," said Elrond

"Neither does Frodo," said Gandald, unexpectedly supporting Pippin. "Nor do any of us see clearly. It is true that if these hobbits understood the danger, they would not dare to go. But they would still wish to go, or wish they dared, and be shamed and unhappy. I think, Elrond, that in this matter it would be well to trust rather to their friendship than to great wisdom. Even if you chose for us an elf-lord, such as Glorfindel, he could not storm the Dark Tower, nor open the road to the Fire by the power that is in him."

Now without those two, again key events would NOT have happened. The Ents would not have gone to Isengard and Helms Deep would have been lost.

Even in that last sentence, Gandalf indicates that a powerful person is no more capable of fullfiulling the quest than Frodo by himself or any of the hobbits. I don't think Gandalf foresaw a need for any powerful person to accompany Frodo into Mordor. The quest was Frodo's alone and the Fellowship was there to just guide him

Again there is additional direction from Gandalf for Frodo to take those of who he might trust with him...

"But I don't think you need to go alone. Not if you know of anyone you can trust, and who will be willing to go by your side - and that you would be willing to take into unknown perils. But if you look for a companion, be careful in choosing!"

If Gandalf did NOT say this, would Frodo have left everyone in the Shire and attempted the trip on his own or possibly with just Sam? If this happened, then again there would be no Pippin and Merry or the destruction of Isengard.

I'm not saying that Gandalf forsaw the EXACT events, but did he have some idea of the roles each would play and their importance? If this was the case, was there any need for another plan?

Gandalf and to some extent Aragorn both provide a ton of foreshadowing. Aragorn's seems to come from what he has learned from Gandalf though. Once Gandalf is lost, Aragorn seems to be unsure, but he does realize that once Frodo decides to leave the Fellowship on his own, that the Ring Bearer is out of his care and protection.

"I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end; but if we seek him now in the wilderness, I must abandon the captives to torment and death. My heart speaks clearly at last: the fate of the Ring Bearer is in my hands no longer. The company has played it's part. Yet we that remain cannot forsake our companions while we have strength left."

[Fimbrethil]

Guys I don't know if I'm just in a bad mood when I post and I'm sorry if I offend anyone but...give some credit to Tolkien. He wrote them without him Gandalf would have never "said" anything. Without him all hope would have been lost because there would not have been a book(s). You all make very good points but honestly these are fictional characters.

[Ilúvatar]

Originally posted by Fimbrethil
Guys I don't know if I'm just in a bad mood when I post and I'm sorry if I offend anyone but...give some credit to Tolkien. He wrote them without him Gandalf would have never "said" anything. Without him all hope would have been lost because there would not have been a book(s). You all make very good points but honestly these are fictional characters.

When you analyse fiction, you look behind what is written. All authors write the words that the characters speak, but you still analyse WHY they said things. Have you ever had English Literature or literature class if you aren't in the US?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Fimbrethil
Guys I don't know if I'm just in a bad mood when I post and I'm sorry if I offend anyone but...give some credit to Tolkien. He wrote them without him Gandalf would have never "said" anything. Without him all hope would have been lost because there would not have been a book(s). You all make very good points but honestly these are fictional characters.

so what yer saying is we are not allowed to think beyond the story? didnt even Tolkien himself think beyond the story in many cases?

[Wayfarer]

Well, considering that even the /original/ plan was screwed up, I don't know that any backup plans would have made a difference. :P

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fimbrethil
Guys I don't know if I'm just in a bad mood when I post and I'm sorry if I offend anyone but...give some credit to Tolkien. He wrote them without him Gandalf would have never "said" anything. Without him all hope would have been lost because there would not have been a book(s). You all make very good points but honestly these are fictional characters.

Well, even Tolkien who (in reality) wrote the books, gives the writing credit to his characters.

[Attalus]

I agree, SGH. Tolkien was one of those writers whose characters come alive in his mind and tell their story to him. Example: When Frodo/Bingo first reached Bree, Trotter/Strider appeared in the story, much to his astonishment. He had no idea whom he was, and took a while to "find out." (He was always thinking, "What does this mean? I must find out," according to Carpenter). LOL, eventually he found out that his nickname was Strider, not "Trotter."