we must be graterful for peter jackson

[gimli7410]

i enjoyed the movies but i will always find the book to be more exciting. but they were great movies except for those small changes

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Lizra
Ahhh....Why do you hate Harry Potter?

'Cuz... ... uh... the books suck. oops. did I say that? *looks sheepish*

Originally posted by Elf Girl
...Ruinel flames when she's angry....

WHA!!???!!! WHEN DO I FLAME?!?! HUH!!?? grrrr... WHEN!?!?!

...oh... eh... nevermind.

[gimli7410]

arent you supposed to be on vacation ruinel why are you wasting time on the computer

[Spock]

....sigh......P.J. did a better job then I and better than most and better than anyone even bothered to try. You didn't see anyone else these past 50 yrs. trying to bring the trilogy to the screen, nor did you EVER see three movies made simultaneously. Why can't some accept that is beyond me.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by gimli7410
arent you supposed to be on vacation ruinel why are you wasting time on the computer

I am... but when I'm waiting for others to get ready to go someplace(we will not name names... *sigh*), or like right now (there's a thunderstorm outside)... I have the time to snag my dad or my stepmom's computer and Moot. hmmmm... does that make me a loser? Perhaps.

Originally posted by Spock
....sigh......P.J. did a better job then I and better than most and better than anyone even bothered to try. You didn't see anyone else these past 50 yrs. trying to bring the trilogy to the screen, nor did you EVER see three movies made simultaneously. Why can't some accept that is beyond me.

So... let me see if I understand what you are trying to say here. We should all be grateful that PJ made an action movie that only vaguely resembles the true story that Tolkien told. And, we should shut our mouths about all the stupid mistakes and changes made by PJ that take away from the Tolkien's story. Is that what you are saying?

[Spock]

Unfortunately English is the only language I am very proficient in.

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Ruinel


So... let me see if I understand what you are trying to say here. We should all be grateful that PJ made an action movie that only vaguely resembles the true story that Tolkien told. And, we should shut our mouths about all the stupid mistakes and changes made by PJ that take away from the Tolkien's story. Is that what you are saying?

In my case, I am grateful to PJ since his set of LOTR movies, no matter the differences they have from the master work of the Professor, have made me and the new friends I have now embark on perilous quests online and offline to search for fellow Tolkien fans.

I've read and enjoyed the books repeatedly since 10 yrs ago but I did not know how many other people shared my interest until the FOTR movie arrived and it made me look into the Internet void and find The Moot . The promise of the TTT movie made me go out and search online for opening dates in january here in manila and it was then that I got pointed to The Philippine Tolkien Society of which me and my new friends have all grown as a big family attending our own regular moots in person every other week.

So, yes, I am grateful to PJ; and more so to The Professor JRRT.

Sorry for rambling.

[Entlover]

I must agree with Spock and Arathorn. Jackson's version is not perfect, and we're all free to enjoy criticizing it ("Come and claim him!?) but despite the awful bits at least he worked hard to create it. Which lets all of us consider anew the great works of Tolkien, and introduced lots of new people to them. Also the New Zealand scenery is awesome.
It was a massive undertaking, and it must have been inspiring to work on. It has also boosted NZ's economy. And you may say that Frodo's wimpy, but I just watched the battle in the tomb of Moria again and he actually got in two good blows at the cave troll, so there! My opinion of the movie Frodo has risen.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Ruinel
WHA!!???!!! WHEN DO I FLAME?!?! HUH!!?? grrrr... WHEN!?!?!

*snort*

[samwise of the shire]

Who said that PJ turned Faramir into Boromir? I disagree. First off you have to remember that the Ring is evil and that human's are corrupted by it's power very easily...and Faramir is only human...PJ accentuated that fact in TTT.
You also have to remember that Denethor favored Boromir over Faramir. It says that in the book. And maybe Faramir hoped to find recognition and respect in his fathers eyes by capturing the Ring. You do have to admit that if they had kept the Ring they would've won the war alot faster.
But THAT is where the movie Faramir showed himself to be the Faramir we all know and love. Despite all of the warnings, and the advantages, and all that whooda Faramir finally did what Boromir could not...he let Frodo continue the quest. He had the wisdom, and the insight to realize that the Ring drew evil...Boromir lacked that (It only took 1 nazgul for Faramir to recognize the danger. Boromir didn't get it even AFTER moria).
Plus Faramir had the nobility to let them go even under the penalty of death. It's the final actions of someone that decides the fate of themselves and others around them.
Sorry for making this so long,
Cheers,
Sam.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Who said that PJ turned Faramir into Boromir? I disagree. First off you have to remember that the Ring is evil and that human's are corrupted by it's power very easily...and Faramir is only human...PJ accentuated that fact in TTT.

Ah, but you must also remember that Faramir and Denethor were throwbacks to the days of Numenor; Denethor got the bad traits of the Numenoreans, and Faramir got the good. But please note that Aragorn never succumbed to the power of the Ring, and that it took Boromir a good deal of time, whereas PJ makes Faramir succumb right off the bat, thus making him morally weaker and weaker of will than Boromir. Hardly Tolkien's Faramir. In my humble opinion, PJ accentuated nothing. He just turned a part of the book that was supposed to be peaceful and restful, a time of momentary respite into something of darkness and fear again.

You also have to remember that Denethor favored Boromir over Faramir. It says that in the book. And maybe Faramir hoped to find recognition and respect in his fathers eyes by capturing the Ring. You do have to admit that if they had kept the Ring they would've won the war alot faster.

Indeed, he did. But Faramir placed his own scruples above the acceptance of his father; those scruples being deriven from his study with Gandalf. Remember that this was one of the main reasons that Denethor favoured Boromir; he felt that Faramir had become a weasly wizard's apprentice.

But THAT is where the movie Faramir showed himself to be the Faramir we all know and love. Despite all of the warnings, and the advantages, and all that whooda Faramir finally did what Boromir could not...he let Frodo continue the quest. He had the wisdom, and the insight to realize that the Ring drew evil...Boromir lacked that (It only took 1 nazgul for Faramir to recognize the danger. Boromir didn't get it even AFTER moria).

The real Faramir got it right away. Again, this is because he was tutored by Gandalf, who was if you recall an Angel in human form, a force of good, and the only one that remained true to the task. M. Faramir didn't do a thing because of what he learned from Gandalf. He did it because Sam blurted about Boromir.

Regards,
Gwai

[samwise of the shire]

I think Gwaimir that you beat me in this debate. But I also think that I didn't make my point clear enough.Faramir was alot like Boromir...except for his final choices.
Faramir had the strength of will in the end to do what his brother couldn't. B. Faramir had made the choice not to touch the ring before hand...the M. Faramir may not have made that choice beforehand...but what is important is that he did finally make it,and that is where the 2 Faramirs are very much alike. M. Faramir would have been Boromir had he never made that choice as his brother did. That is where the distinguishing factor is...in choices.
Now, I want to know. What did you think of Treebeard? The reason I ask is because nobody mentions the botch up they did on him...we all complain about how terribly awful Faramir is in making those bad choices at the beginning, and then we don't complain about how Treebeard was so stupid? Of course he did make that final choice to destroy Isengard, but he had been there forever...Faramir was only 36 years old...and compared to the other men of Gondor that's really young!!!
Slainte,
A disgruntled about the stupid tree,
Sam.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

First off, I would like to point out that Boromir also rejected the Ring's influence in the end, just as Faramir did (in the movie).

Secondly, I would say that I agree to some extent. I thought the Ancient Wise Ents seemed rather dim. I also couldn't stand the way Pippin the village idiot came along and all of a sudden tricked them all into attacking Isengard. It seems to me that this was only a desperate (And failed) attempt to compensate for the over Men-ocentricizing of the Two Towers. I couldn't believe that Fangorn didn't attack Isengard at first; this was another change I disliked. But of course, not so much as his stupidification.

[Lizra]

Dumb trees! At least I finally understand why Denethor liked Boromir better than Faramir! Makes sense now!

[MasterMothra]

some people just dont know when to stop critisizing the lord of the rings movies, it makes me furious! (hi, im furious, whats your name?) it makes me want to make them choke on a rock ( the one peter jackson throws in his cameo at helms deep is the perfect size) cant people see that he's doing it right?

was this kid serious?

look, the reason why i can criticize the work of jackson is because i paid to see it! if i go to a restaraunt and i dont like the food, i complain, because i paid for it. when i go to someones house to eat dinner with them, i dont complain about the food, because it was free and they were cooking for me out of the goodness of their hearts.
same goes for the movie.

[samwise of the shire]

I think that what Hector was saying was that he's tired of people complaining about LOTR. He's talking about the nit pickers that are discontent with LOTR:The Movies just because they don't follow the book right down to the last comma.
May I point out that LOTR:The movie...is an ADAPTION of LOTR...it is a tribute (maybe a lousy one in some peoples eyes, but a tribute none the less) to Tolkien's greatest work. It is not the actual work.
And yes TTT left much to be wanted...but even then it wasn't as bad as I've seen some make it. The worst thing about it was the ents..."yes we know they're slow PJ, but did you REALLY need to make them SLOW IN THE HEAD!!!" and possibly Faramir, but I think that he can be forgiven.

look, the reason why i can criticize the work of jackson is because i paid to see it!

He didn't say that you CAN'T complain mothra...he was just saying that those that don't STOP complaining should choke on a rock! He said sorry...give him a break.

if i go to a restaraunt and i dont like the food, i complain, because i paid for it.

Alright this is ripe. If the movie was THAT bad...Then WHY in Middle Earth do you keep on going BACK to see the new installments???!!!!! I mean there is NO logic behind that!!! You wouldn't return to a bad resturant, then WHY return to a "bad" movie.
ARRRGGGH,
Cheers,
Sam.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
I think Gwaimir that you beat me in this debate. But I also think that I didn't make my point clear enough.Faramir was alot like Boromir...except for his final choices.
Faramir had the strength of will in the end to do what his brother couldn't. B. Faramir had made the choice not to touch the ring before hand...the M. Faramir may not have made that choice beforehand...but what is important is that he did finally make it,and that is where the 2 Faramirs are very much alike. M. Faramir would have been Boromir had he never made that choice as his brother did. That is where the distinguishing factor is...in choices.

hmmmm... Samwise of the Shire... I don't think you are getting this. B. Faramir and M. Faramir have no similarities at all... other than they have the same father and brother and live in Gondor.

B. Faramir was noble. He had made a decision not to take the Ring and he stood by that. M. Faramir was frantic when he discovered the Ring, and anxious to bring it to his father, looking for his father's approval. He was stricken by the power the Ring held, just like his brother in the movie. B. Faramir was content to stick by his ethics and not grovel for his father's approval. (Which, as Gwai pointed out, was the stress between Denethor and Faramir.) B. Faramir did NOT force Frodo and Sam to go to Gondor, he let them go on their way, by his word.

So, you see? Just like many other characters, PJ changed Faramir's character to suit the needs of his Hollywood driven flick.

[Arathorn]

I think I will wait til the Extended TTT DVD and ROTK before I pass judgment on the movie version of Faramir. At the moment, I just don't know what happened to him in the movie since scenes were removed.

[samwise of the shire]

*sighs in resignation* I have one thing to say:choices Many times in the BOOKS it's the final choices of characters that decide the fates of the characters...let's see...Frodo chose to take the Ring to Mordor, to not kill Gollum, and Gollum in turn chose to bite Frodo's finger off to get to the Ring.
Merry chose to disobey Theoden (and I am NOT saying that disobedience is a good thing...it's just that sometimes the stupid descisions one makes can often be turned around for the good of those around us) and ride into battle, where his sword unknit the power of the witch king, and made it possible for Eowyn to kill him. Eowyn would've been one with the earth after the Witch king had gotten done with her had not Merry been around.
Think about it...the movie Faramir's final descision about the Ring was what changed the whole flippin' thing around...and you know what I heard? He actually shows them (The being the hobbits) out of Osgiliath via the sewers...though STUPID PJ cut that scene out. And he did that against the death sentence. So in my mind's eye he didn't turn out so bad after all.
Cheers,
Sam
ps. Maybe Arathorn of the Duffle-pud shoe avatar(love the avatar BTW) is right...let's continue the arguement AFTER we've seen ROTK. If Faramir is the same jerk he was in TTT (at the BEGINNING!) then you can hit me with a virtual trout...if not then I'll not gloat because that's not a good thing to do. And this was longer than I wanted it to be.

[Ruinel]

Samwise, I don't think that PJ has a choice. He's already slotted M. Faramir as a loathsome and greedy and devoid of nobility and morals. So, how is M. Faramir going to evolve into our beloved B. Faramir? I don't think PJ has the skills to work that magic.

I feel my words fall on deaf ears.