The Apostasy - Page 2

Entlover · 05-04-2003, 07:54 PM

You've probably considered and rejected this, but . . .
instead of kamelavkion you could just use miter, which my dictionary says is the headdress worn by bishops of the Western rite and the official headdress of the ancient high priest in Judaism. Then folks would know what you meant, instead of picturing him with some kind of pastry on his head

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-04-2003, 07:57 PM

Yeah, originally the headress was going to be a mitre (didn't think the Jewish high priest wore that, though), but then I decided to go Eastern, as the kamelavkion isn't so well known.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-12-2003, 11:14 PM

Anymore input? I'll be taking it to the meeting a week from tomorrow, so I'd appreciate anything else people have to say.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-19-2003, 11:45 PM

I take it to the group tomorrow evening.

Any last minute comments, criticisms, etc.?

Lief Erikson · 05-20-2003, 12:19 AM

Good luck with it

.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-20-2003, 11:52 PM

Back from the writer's group, and only one change made!

How will I ever get it to be good enough to be publishable (let alone unusually good fantasy) with so little critiquing?

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The light emitted by the ancient parchment was so powerful that none but the ordained priests could make out the words, and they could only with difficulty.

Only change, is that this now reads:

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The light emitted by the ancient parchment was so powerful that none but the ordained priests could make out the words, and they, only with difficulty.

And they didn't even mention that!

Just when the person stumbled over it a bit while reading aloud, I made a note to change it.

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 12:58 AM

That's too bad. Are your family at all interested in writing, or anyone else you know who's not an online friend? Because I'm having my book critiqued by a screenplay writer who's a friend of the family, and my Dad is planning to critique it too.

I suppose you don't have any idea how long your book is going to be, or at least no permanent idea. I don't know much about how your plot shows the length will be, but judging from my own works, plots tend to change from one's original expectations. But . . . do you think it'll be long?

You have a good writing style. One thing to note though (In my opinion) is that when you're actually writing your story, the description would be a bit much for a novel if it's the same amount as it is in the short story. For a description exercise, the short story is wonderful, but it's good not to overload too much on that when actually writing the novel. It could have the affect of losing the audience's interest, or causing them to skip paragraphs. I know I've had that problem with Terry Brooks, when he goes a little too far in that way.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-21-2003, 01:02 AM

I don't really know...I'm guessing/hoping 300 pages.

It's actually the beginning scene of the book, not a short story. And I don't plan on the whole thing being so descriptive...

It's really more to emphasise the holiness of the occurance. Though of course, I do plan to be fairly descriptive.

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 01:07 AM

This is The Lisman Chronicles, correct? If so, I suppose I should move my response to the Lisman topic.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-21-2003, 01:10 AM

Nope, it's "The Apostasy", the first book of a three-book series, set in Lisman. The "Lisman" topic was really more for that which is not covered in the books; general information about the secondary world.

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 01:13 AM

Oh. Oops.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-21-2003, 01:20 AM

Dinnae worry aboot it.

Quote:

I'd advise your having a different beginning scene to the book. Or, perhaps it could be the beginning of Chapter 1, and have a prologue come first that is full of blazing action. The point is to grip the reader from the start, and grip 'em hard. They'll pick the story up off the shelf and look at it, and open to the first page after reading the jacket. Actually, perhaps they'll flip through it, but if they open to the prologue, it'll be good to have something that'll interest them rather than a wave of description.

How structured is your plot, thus far? Do you have it written out, as far as what actions and happenings lead to what, in an outline?

Well, I'm really less of an "action" writer, and prefer other elements; of course, I am quite fascinated by religion, and especially religious rite. Hopefully, others who share a similar interest in such elements will be gripped by it. And I view Tolkien as rather a role model, and his works don't begin with action.

So far, it's pretty well structured, the beginning especially. The end is fairly well structured, but the middle is kinda hazy...

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 01:30 AM

Well, structuring it more would be good. With my plots, I get the full basic plot outline finished, and then I do a scene by scene plot. The scene by scene plot is one that nobody I've talked to on Entmoot seems to do, but it's very useful for organizational purposes.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-21-2003, 01:33 AM

Yeah, it sounds like a REALLY good idea...I'm not too good at that, though...

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 01:40 AM

Plot construction is one of the funnest parts of the book! Uh, at least for me. Practice will help. Thinking what's logical to happen next often helps me. What would be in character for the individual to do, or think of? If I have a conclusion already in mind, as you apparently do, then manipulating the logic by causing events to take place and change the logical flow can help. There is definitely room for ingenuity though, and it's very helpful. Sometimes I've prayed to the Lord for ideas, and he's given me brilliant ones in the past, when I need them really bad. So praying can help. Slogging away at it is very important too, though. Keeping at the plot. It's grunt work, but it ends up paying off if you focus on it enough and think through the different trains of ideas. You've already got some ideas, so that should help.

Coming up with my plots is really hard work because I know what a time commitment I'm making. I'd be spending the next several years writing this book, so it has to be good enough to keep ME interested, all the time. So it involves creating the plot, throwing out the bad ideas and replacing them slowly with better ones, wheedling away at it, changing the good ideas for better ones, and then finally throwing the whole thing away because it's not good enough. I don't know if you'd be as critical as I am, because I'm very picky about my long term plots, but plugging away at it is important.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-21-2003, 01:45 AM

Thanks much for that, sounds quite helpful.

What you say about what's logical for the character to do is interesting, because originally when writing the plot for Apostasy, I just wanted various things to happen; the main character Fallos was really somewhat of a literary device to make them happen. But looking back, I see that the happenings have made him into a character, and a rather interesting, believable one, if I do say so myself.

Lief Erikson · 05-21-2003, 01:51 AM

Good, that's great

. In my book, also, in the beginning I found the main characters rather boring. Now I'm very attached to them. I found out who they were as people as the book went on, and their characters now are very well developed, in my opinion. So yes, that is another aspect.

Causing people's characters to certain actions happen is one way of doing things. It's not my way; I tend to let the story guide itself more than I guide it. But if it works for you, great

.

05-04-2003, 07:57 PM	#22
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Yeah, originally the headress was going to be a mitre (didn't think the Jewish high priest wore that, though), but then I decided to go Eastern, as the kamelavkion isn't so well known. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-12-2003, 11:14 PM	#23
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Anymore input? I'll be taking it to the meeting a week from tomorrow, so I'd appreciate anything else people have to say. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-19-2003, 11:45 PM	#24
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I take it to the group tomorrow evening. Any last minute comments, criticisms, etc.? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 05-19-2003 at 11:48 PM.

05-21-2003, 01:02 AM	#28
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I don't really know...I'm guessing/hoping 300 pages. It's actually the beginning scene of the book, not a short story. And I don't plan on the whole thing being so descriptive... It's really more to emphasise the holiness of the occurance. Though of course, I do plan to be fairly descriptive. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-21-2003, 01:10 AM	#30
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Nope, it's "The Apostasy", the first book of a three-book series, set in Lisman. The "Lisman" topic was really more for that which is not covered in the books; general information about the secondary world. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-04-2003, 07:54 PM	#21
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	You've probably considered and rejected this, but . . . instead of kamelavkion you could just use miter, which my dictionary says is the headdress worn by bishops of the Western rite and the official headdress of the ancient high priest in Judaism. Then folks would know what you meant, instead of picturing him with some kind of pastry on his head

05-20-2003, 12:19 AM	#25
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Good luck with it .

05-21-2003, 12:58 AM	#27
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	That's too bad. Are your family at all interested in writing, or anyone else you know who's not an online friend? Because I'm having my book critiqued by a screenplay writer who's a friend of the family, and my Dad is planning to critique it too. I suppose you don't have any idea how long your book is going to be, or at least no permanent idea. I don't know much about how your plot shows the length will be, but judging from my own works, plots tend to change from one's original expectations. But . . . do you think it'll be long? You have a good writing style. One thing to note though (In my opinion) is that when you're actually writing your story, the description would be a bit much for a novel if it's the same amount as it is in the short story. For a description exercise, the short story is wonderful, but it's good not to overload too much on that when actually writing the novel. It could have the affect of losing the audience's interest, or causing them to skip paragraphs. I know I've had that problem with Terry Brooks, when he goes a little too far in that way.

05-21-2003, 01:07 AM	#29
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	This is The Lisman Chronicles, correct? If so, I suppose I should move my response to the Lisman topic.

05-21-2003, 01:13 AM	#31
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Oh. Oops.

05-21-2003, 01:30 AM	#33
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Well, structuring it more would be good. With my plots, I get the full basic plot outline finished, and then I do a scene by scene plot. The scene by scene plot is one that nobody I've talked to on Entmoot seems to do, but it's very useful for organizational purposes.

05-21-2003, 01:33 AM	#34
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Yeah, it sounds like a REALLY good idea...I'm not too good at that, though... __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-21-2003, 01:40 AM	#35
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Plot construction is one of the funnest parts of the book! Uh, at least for me. Practice will help. Thinking what's logical to happen next often helps me. What would be in character for the individual to do, or think of? If I have a conclusion already in mind, as you apparently do, then manipulating the logic by causing events to take place and change the logical flow can help. There is definitely room for ingenuity though, and it's very helpful. Sometimes I've prayed to the Lord for ideas, and he's given me brilliant ones in the past, when I need them really bad. So praying can help. Slogging away at it is very important too, though. Keeping at the plot. It's grunt work, but it ends up paying off if you focus on it enough and think through the different trains of ideas. You've already got some ideas, so that should help. Coming up with my plots is really hard work because I know what a time commitment I'm making. I'd be spending the next several years writing this book, so it has to be good enough to keep ME interested, all the time. So it involves creating the plot, throwing out the bad ideas and replacing them slowly with better ones, wheedling away at it, changing the good ideas for better ones, and then finally throwing the whole thing away because it's not good enough. I don't know if you'd be as critical as I am, because I'm very picky about my long term plots, but plugging away at it is important.

05-21-2003, 01:45 AM	#36
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Thanks much for that, sounds quite helpful. What you say about what's logical for the character to do is interesting, because originally when writing the plot for Apostasy, I just wanted various things to happen; the main character Fallos was really somewhat of a literary device to make them happen. But looking back, I see that the happenings have made him into a character, and a rather interesting, believable one, if I do say so myself. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-21-2003, 01:51 AM	#37
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Good, that's great . In my book, also, in the beginning I found the main characters rather boring. Now I'm very attached to them. I found out who they were as people as the book went on, and their characters now are very well developed, in my opinion. So yes, that is another aspect. Causing people's characters to certain actions happen is one way of doing things. It's not my way; I tend to let the story guide itself more than I guide it. But if it works for you, great .