Orcs

[Bombadillo]

In that case, I think Tolkien may have meant for is to pity the orcs a little bit, like he wanted us to pity Gollum for being so hopelessly twisted and corrupted. But the ents may also have been pitiful (they lost their wives and are a dying race!), and the orcs slaughtered many of them. I don't know anymore. I still think they're are bad and evil (although not all bad I guess, even if it's not all by their own will.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I disagree: Gollum wasn't hopelessly twisted and corrupted, as Gandalf said about both him and Saruman, I believe. But we saw the flickering remains of Smeagol's fire being stirred again, we saw him start to surface over Gollum.

My point is without any real leadership orcs really are not too much of a threat if you stay out there way ur fine

But if everyone stayed out of their way, would they not move on to where there were others to prey upon?

[Elf Girl]

The goblins in The Hobbit govern themselves...

And Gollum came very, very, near to repenting and casting out the shadow of the Ring... But Sam spoiled it, we hates the nasssty fat hobbitses... *ssss, precious*

[Elvellyn]

Orcs are bred to be evil. Its not their fault. I personally am quite fond of them.

Wayfarer- An Orc Civil Liberties Union? Can I be co-founder?



But seriously, think about it. When Sauron was destroyed, they started running around killing each other. That's got to say something about their intelligence level.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
In that case, I think Tolkien may have meant for is to pity the orcs a little bit, like he wanted us to pity Gollum for being so hopelessly twisted and corrupted.

To pity Gollum is to pity Frodo. For Frodo becomes more like Gollum in the end, taken heart and mind by The Ring. You can not pity Frodo without taking pity on Gollum. Both start out simple and are taken into darkness by evil.

Orcs, on the other hand, bred for evil and used by Morgoth then Sauron, then Saruman to bring pain and sorrow on the dwellers of ME. No pity for them!

[gimli7410]

i think it was right when the men destroyed all the orcs because they would hide and then they would attack helpless wanderers

[Elf Girl]

I pity the orcs, but I hate them also. They were Elves once, for Eru's sake! I pity them like I would pity a dead person.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by gimli7410
i think it was right when the men destroyed all the orcs because they would hide and then they would attack helpless wanderers

Some of them hid in the Misty Mountains, I think. They ambushed me and my father while we were going to Rivendell with a message from LorÃ*en.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
To pity Gollum is to pity Frodo. For Frodo becomes more like Gollum in the end, taken heart and mind by The Ring. You can not pity Frodo without taking pity on Gollum. Both start out simple and are taken into darkness by evil.

I don't know if I agree with that. Tolkien said that Smeagol wouldn't have been affected by the Ring so much if he hadn't such a mean thieving sort. But one can't very well pitying him. Except those @%$@# in theaters who were always laughing at him.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I don't know if I agree with that. Tolkien said that Smeagol wouldn't have been affected by the Ring so much if he hadn't such a mean thieving sort. But one can't very well pitying him. Except those @%$@# in theaters who were always laughing at him.

I don't recall people in the theaters here laughing at Smeagol. Well, when I read the story of Smeagol I always felt that he was such good friends with Deagol but then The Ring comes into their lives and takes over Smeagol from the beginning. Whereas, with Frodo it took a while (because as Gandalf states, he has a resiliance to it). But I never read the letter that JRRT made with regards to Smeagol. So, I will concede to your authority on this.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Mmm...conceded authority...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Mmm...conceded authority...

yes... concede to your authority... or would you rather be conceited authority *snicker* ... or concealed authority *hehehe*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oh, so many to choose from...All of the above.

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Gollum wasn't hopelessly twisted and corrupted, as Gandalf said about both him and Saruman, I believe.

But gandalf also said, when speaking of Gollum:

As for me, I pity even his <Sauron's> servants.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't orcs fall under that category?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Oh, so many to choose from...All of the above.

So let it be written, so let it be done!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't orcs fall under that category?

Wayfarer, you are insufferable!

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Some of them hid in the Misty Mountains, I think. They ambushed me and my father while we were going to Rivendell with a message from LorÃ*en.

psycho!!!!!!!

jk

[Wayfarer]

To pity Gollum is to pity Frodo. For Frodo becomes more like Gollum in the end, taken heart and mind by The Ring. You can not pity Frodo without taking pity on Gollum. Both start out simple and are taken into darkness by evil.

Orcs, on the other hand, bred for evil and used by Morgoth then Sauron, then Saruman to bring pain and sorrow on the dwellers of ME. No pity for them!

But why? How is it different?

Upon taking the ring, frodo and gollum began to be corrupted. Gollum, to a degree, embraced the corruption, took advantage of it. But even though frodo resisted, he would never have been able to avoid the same fate.

Now look at the orcs. They were taken, presumably against their wills, and /twisted/ by a force less than a handful of beings on on earth could have resisted- melkor himself. Do you think you could stop yourself from being corrupted? I know I couldn't have. And so yes, they deserve your pity. Because whatever they may have become, they became against their will. Far better to pity them, and scorn those humans who, without a dark lord to force them, choose to become the same thing.

[Ruinel]

Wayfarer, you crack me up!!!

[Elvellyn]

He's right though. I mean, the Orcs don't like serving Sauron anymore than Frodo, Gollum, and Bilbo like being controlled by the Ring