The great Patratiotism debate

[Sween]

Originally posted by IronParrot
Yes, but sometimes people forget to draw the line between national pride and overwhelming national dedication. Remember, a sense of "our country is the best" superiority was one of the primary causes for the rise (and election) of fascist leaders.

In this continually globalizing world, I would say nationalism and patriotism are really becoming things of the past. It's one thing to think of one's own culture as really great, but there are limits to this.

Certainly, crickhollow, the approach you take to it - the personal feeling that there's no place like home - is totally legitimate and harmless. But a lot of people extend the concept of patriotism leaps and bounds beyond that, and that's when it becomes dangerous.

Just a note on my point of getting behind the troops a lot of the MP (members of parliment) seem to want this line your not patrioric if you dont support your troops. Now i want all our troops to have a quick and safe return but i dont support nessarily what they are doing.

I agree with you that patriotism is in some ways becomming a thing of the past but this is more to do with intergaration rather than globlization i know that many of the muslims in this country are still very loyal to there own countries and there faith. I know during vietnam that black americans were very opposed to been called up as they drew a distinction between the country which they lived in and there own belifes. I can see that what is considered to be english patraiotism is going to have to change (the birth rates of all colours of skin is now pretty equal).

[Elvellon]

In relation with the original post:

Patriotism can be both a positive and a negative force. It is true that dictators often use nationalistic rhetoric to keep their people motivated and unquestioning, that is a well-known fact. On the other hand patriotism can be simply the expression of one’s love for one’s country and nation, and not reflect a sense of superiority but simply one of uniqueness.

So, that said, should one avoid criticizing a war when one doesn’t believe the reasons behind it?

Personally, I think a delicate balance must be reach here. Those fighting in the name of one’s country deserve respect for what they are doing, even if we perceive the war they are fighting as unjust and unnecessary, after all, they are putting their lives on the line for one’s country there. But, sacrificing one’s beliefs, one’s sense of right and wrong is also unacceptable. So, in my view, it all comes down to good sense; it is up to each one of us to find a middle term were our sense of justice and of respect for those fighting and dying can coexist. This is a personal endeavour, and not all will agree with our personal solution, but the important thing is, that we try to find it anyway. Doing less then that is disrespecting what our forefathers in our respective countries fought, and died for; they have sacrificed themselves so that today we would be citizens of our nations, and not servants of an oppressive regime, that implies also the responsibility of exercising fully our citizenship, including taking our own decisions, when it would be much more comfortable to simply accept what others want us to do.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

My response, to the original question:

In the Iraq situation: The U.S. didnt decide to go to war, the people in Washington did. Being patriotic is not necessarily siding with your gov't, but your country and what's best for it. I am a U.S. citizen, and I do not think this war in Iraq will be in any way beneficial, yet I do not feel I am unpatriotic. I feel powerless in my government.

What sense in borders and nations and patriotism?--- Maude, from Harold and Maude

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Just want to point out that I think around 65% of Americans support the war.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
My response, to the original question:

In the Iraq situation: The U.S. didnt decide to go to war, the people in Washington did. Being patriotic is not necessarily siding with your gov't, but your country and what's best for it. I am a U.S. citizen, and I do not think this war in Iraq will be in any way beneficial, yet I do not feel I am unpatriotic. I feel powerless in my government.

What sense in borders and nations and patriotism?--- Maude, from Harold and Maude

The U.S. didn't, but people in Washington did? Ummm, last poll shows 72% of Americans support this war, so I'd say your statement might be true for you, but it isn't true for the U.S.

[Coney]

Looks like another thread doomed to closure (taking SGH's warning in the "presidents address" thread ....can't say I blame her really.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I didn't notice anything rude...This seems like a considerably more intelligent discussion than the ones I saw closed.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I didn't notice anything rude...This seems like a considerably more intelligent discussion than the ones I saw closed.

Nah, it's her warning about degenerating other threads off-topic into Iraq. This thread isn't supposed to be about the war.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I didn't notice anything rude...This seems like a considerably more intelligent discussion than the ones I saw closed.

Nope, nothing rude........the Iraq discussion is supposed to be contained to one thread now......or all such discussion is banned *shrugs*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

O....forgot about that.

But that was just a little, um, correctional sidetrack, yes, that's it. We're all done now. No need to shoot us, SGH. No, no, NO! -BLAM!- -falls limp to the floor-

So sad.

Hmm, what's wrong with my brain tonight?

[Khamûl]

Right. No discussion Iraq outside the President's Address thread. Otherwise SGH might have to come in with her admin stick of wrath.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

She already used her admin BAZOOKA of wrath.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Khamûl
Right. No discussion Iraq outside the President's Address thread. Otherwise SGH might have to come in with her admin stick of wrath.

off like the last bunny at the greyhound track

------------------------------------------------------------>>>>>

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
O....forgot about that.

But that was just a little, um, correctional sidetrack, yes, that's it. We're all done now. No need to shoot us, SGH. No, no, NO! -BLAM!- -falls limp to the floor-

So sad.

Hmm, what's wrong with my brain tonight?

What do you mean tonight ?

[Laurelyn]

Yay. I like this thread. See my sig.
Yeah . . . patriotism to me is general thankfulness that I'm not living in a shack somewhere starving. Patriotism to me is thankfulness that I'm not in Iraq or something. The ol' red-white-and-blue gets a vague amount of love from my direction. But I went and fell in love with Ireland, so my plans consist of moving. Soon.
But, y'know, I really don't think patriotism has anything to do with agreeing with your leaders. (especially when one's leader is a plant. A shrub.) Or backing your army (although I think the troops out there trying not to get themselves killed would probably appreciate our support, hmm?)

[Huan]

This post is guranteed to offend someone. I personally chafe at the word patriotism whenever I hear it, for it is one of those code words used as a short cut to having to think too deeply about a subject, and one used by leaders to hide what they're really saying. Further, the word derives from Latin, literally loyalty to the patria, the fatherland (what historical regime of this century was heavy into talk of the fatherland?). I find it a very imperialistic, anti-individual word.

[sun-star]

When patriotism means someone liking/loving their country, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Somehow it seems to come naturally to people, although it's utterly irrational The problem comes when you go on to believing your country is the best possible, and can therefore do what it likes - because that's just stupid. No country (or culture) is inherently better than any other, is it?

Also, I can understand loving your country, but I don't quite understand being proud of it. Doesn't pride imply it's something you have a hand in? I mean, I love Britain, but I don't credit myself with its history or the fact that it's a nice place to live

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Khamûl
Right. No discussion Iraq outside the President's Address thread. Otherwise SGH might have to come in with her admin stick of wrath.

Oh, don't worry, I'm watching all of you.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Oh, don't worry, I'm watching all of you.

lucky us

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sween
lucky us

You're such a nice guy Sween.