Aldarion and Erendis - Page 2

Ruinel · 03-03-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
I always thought that things might turn out good in the end, but there wasn't really a happy end.
I think it should not have been a problem that Erendis had not the same blood like Aldarion. And yes, maybe they shouldn't have married. Didn't they see that coming in the beginning, they knew that they were very different.

Even I saw that their would be trouble if they got married. He was really immature and she was really stubborn.

Quote:

Because that would have killed the story. It's a tragedy

I wouldn't call it a tragedy so much as a total disaster. I'm glad that not all of Tolkien's characters were written like these two. Otherwise, I never would have gotten hooked on his stories.

***Earniel*** · 03-03-2003, 06:27 PM

I don't know, I think it takes great writingskills to be able to write both happy and sad stories. Although I usually hate to read bad-ending tales (they make me depressed) it doesn't bother me so much in Tolkien's writing. He was trying to create an entire mythology, a whole history. Each history has good and sad tales. The sad tales are necessary to make the whole more realistic. Though the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis isn't one of my favorites, I wouldn't want to have missed it.

Ruinel · 03-03-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel
I don't know, I think it takes great writingskills to be able to write both happy and sad stories. Although I usually hate to read bad-ending tales (they make me depressed) it doesn't bother me so much in Tolkien's writing. He was trying to create an entire mythology, a whole history. Each history has good and sad tales. The sad tales are necessary to make the whole more realistic. Though the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis isn't one of my favorites, I wouldn't want to have missed it.

It is definitely not one of my favorites either. Its the characters in this story that make it so. Actually, come to think about it... none of the tales of Men actually are my favorites. Hmmm. That's wierd, because there are so many of them.

Lalaith · 03-04-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Because that would have killed the story. It's a tragedy.

What if, Why didn't they ......
Such questions always end in: Because then there would have been no story!

I thought the story was good work, although the ending was soooo sad.
I'm thinking about what Tolkien wanted to say with this story?

Ruinel · 03-04-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
What if, Why didn't they ......
Such questions always end in: Because then there would have been no story!

I thought the story was good work, although the ending was soooo sad.
I'm thinking about what Tolkien wanted to say with this story?

You are right! There is a moral to this story. People must be compatible to stay friends for the rest of their lives. Because isn't that what a marriage is supposed to be? A close and intimate friendship. These two did not stay friends (nor intimate) because they were definitely not compatible.

Although I didn't like the story (not because it ends sad, but because the characters were so selfish) I've learned something from this thread. Thanks for speaking your mind.

olsonm · 03-04-2003, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
You are right! There is a moral to this story. People must be compatible to stay friends for the rest of their lives.

Yes, Tolkien made a similar point with the tale of the Ents and Entwives.

Ruinel · 03-04-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by olsonm
Yes, Tolkien made a similar point with the tale of the Ents and Entwives.

I do not recall this tale. Only what is told in the TT from LotR. Where would I read this tale?

In retrospect, I believe that I did not like the tale of Erendis and Aldarion because it reminded me too much of people that I know. But they had the foresight to end their relationship rather than get married, have kids and live in misery.

olsonm · 03-04-2003, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
I do not recall this tale. Only what is told in the TT from LotR. Where would I read this tale?

I meant the story as told in TT.

Ruinel · 03-04-2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by olsonm
I meant the story as told in TT.

hmmm... I better reread that one. I don't recall it being anything like Aldarion and Erendis.

olsonm · 03-04-2003, 09:30 PM

It wasn't as bitter, certainly. But they wouldn't compromise for the sake of their union. Just read the Ent/Entwife song.

Ruinel · 03-05-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by olsonm
It wasn't as bitter, certainly. But they wouldn't compromise for the sake of their union. Just read the Ent/Entwife song.

Will do... thanks.

Lalaith · 03-06-2003, 11:34 AM

Yeah, the ents story is sad too. I mean to know that your race is gonna die isn't really funny.
I wonder what personality their daughter (Aldarion and Erendi's) would have had if they had been together and happy.

Ruinel · 03-06-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Yeah, the ents story is sad too. I mean to know that your race is gonna die isn't really funny.
I wonder what personality their daughter (Aldarion and Erendi's) would have had if they had been together and happy.

Erendis totally secluded her away from men and controlled what she heard and who she had contact with while Aldarion was away. If Aldarion hadn't abandoned Erendis for the sea, Erendis would have remained happy, and I feel that their daughter would have grown up normal. But then, the story would not have been so strong in its message.

Lalaith · 03-07-2003, 10:57 AM

Then the story would be worth telling it.

Ruinel · 03-07-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Then the story would be worth telling it.

Yes, but I think there are lots of happy ending stories out there. This story was written with a specific message in mind.

***Earniel*** · 03-07-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Then the story would be worth telling it.

Oh, I think it is definately worth telling now too. And that's not just because it's something written by Tolkien.

I think the Tale of Erendis and Aldarion gives a good view on how the Numenorean court worked, even if all that is more background information. It also showed that the decay was already present in the Numenoreans, an important point I think. Then there is also the morale of the story which is in its own right a reason for telling.

Lalaith · 03-08-2003, 07:26 AM

Yeah, but the other happy ending stories - like Luthien and Beren - have adventures in it. The characters do special things.
Aldarion and Erendis didn't do really important things.

Ruinel · 03-08-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Yeah, but the other happy ending stories - like Luthien and Beren - have adventures in it. The characters do special things.
Aldarion and Erendis didn't do really important things.

Although, I would like it to be clear that the story of Aldarion and Erendis was not my favorite and that I have always felt that both characters were immature in their approach to their marriage, I would like to make a comment about what you've said.

That the characters did not really do important things is not true. Perhaps Erendis did not do anything truely important... other than bearing an heir for Numenor, and changing Aldarion's view of the trees from reaping only, to actual husbandry of the woods (even if it were only to cut them down later for wood for ships). But Aldarion established an important alliance with Gil-galad and the elves. He also established a mariner's guild for both building and sailing ships, advancing both of these skills in Numenor. These prove very important later at the actual fall of Numenor when The Faithful leave for ME.

Lalaith · 03-08-2003, 01:46 PM

I think you misunderstood me about the "not important". Maybe they did some important things, but these are no things that are stories about, which are told ages and ages after that.
Legends are made of other actions, not about what Erendis and Aldarion did (although it was important).
But their love story is a legend.

Ruinel · 03-15-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
But their love story is a legend.

Or rather, the-end-of-thier-love story.

03-03-2003, 06:27 PM	#22
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I don't know, I think it takes great writingskills to be able to write both happy and sad stories. Although I usually hate to read bad-ending tales (they make me depressed) it doesn't bother me so much in Tolkien's writing. He was trying to create an entire mythology, a whole history. Each history has good and sad tales. The sad tales are necessary to make the whole more realistic. Though the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis isn't one of my favorites, I wouldn't want to have missed it. __________________ We are not things.

03-04-2003, 09:30 PM	#30
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	It wasn't as bitter, certainly. But they wouldn't compromise for the sake of their union. Just read the Ent/Entwife song. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

03-06-2003, 11:34 AM	#32
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Yeah, the ents story is sad too. I mean to know that your race is gonna die isn't really funny. I wonder what personality their daughter (Aldarion and Erendi's) would have had if they had been together and happy. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-07-2003, 10:57 AM	#34
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Then the story would be worth telling it. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-08-2003, 07:26 AM	#37
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Yeah, but the other happy ending stories - like Luthien and Beren - have adventures in it. The characters do special things. Aldarion and Erendis didn't do really important things. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-08-2003, 01:46 PM	#39
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I think you misunderstood me about the "not important". Maybe they did some important things, but these are no things that are stories about, which are told ages and ages after that. Legends are made of other actions, not about what Erendis and Aldarion did (although it was important). But their love story is a legend. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.