Aragorn's Fall...any changes of opinion out there?

[Black Breathalizer]

Dúnedain, the image of Arwen at the shards of Narzil monument is from the TTT extended Preview from the FOTR movie. It is also an easter egg in the Extended FOTR DVD.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
One of the best qualities of PJ's work is that he is able to share alot with the audience with mere looks, gestures, glances, and other actions. Combined with Howard Shore's moving soundtrack, many important things about the story are communicated without the need for lengthy exposition. Aragorn's reunion with Legolas, Aragorn's good-bye to Arwen, Elrond and Arwen's talk, Aragorn handling the young boy's sword, and Gimli telling Eowyn that Aragorn fell are all wonderful examples of scenes where the Director communicates a great deal beyond the script's dialogue.

That I agree with. Good acting there, except from Liv Tyler who, by judging her job in FotR and TTT, imo is a very poor actress. During her scenes in TTT I was in badly need of a fast forward button.

I wish PJ had stayed closer to the book when he lined out the movie plot. But he didn't, and I still enjoy the movies immensely. Having thus accepted the deviations from the book, I haven't any major problem accepting the mentioned warg - falling from cliff - awakening - reunion scenes, as part of the plot.

What I do find difficult is to believe in Aragorn's superiority in the movie. Aragorn in the book is a Numenorean, he is related to Elrond so there's an Elvish strain in his blood, and he has been fostered in Imladris. And he has got Anduril. None of these circumstances are present in the movie. How am I supposed to believe it, when he falls off that cliff and, against all common sense, survives? And not only survives, but brings himself up on a horse and rides all the way to Helms Deep, and later the very night joins the battle there. How am I supposed to believe that he alone should be able to fight off several dozens of orcs? Why is it natural for him to take command over the Elven host at Helms Deep? And so on. Doesn't all this reduce him to a regular actionfilm-oversized unrealistic hero? It does to me.

[Legolaslvr!]

I cried when i thought Aragorn died!!


I only hve read the 1 book so i didn't know that he realy didn't die but he did look pretty sexy in that scene!!!!

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Artanis
What I do find difficult is to believe in Aragorn's superiority in the movie. Aragorn in the book is a Numenorean, he is related to Elrond so there's an Elvish strain in his blood, and he has been fostered in Imladris. And he has got Anduril. None of these circumstances are present in the movie. How am I supposed to believe it, when he falls off that cliff and, against all common sense, survives? And not only survives, but brings himself up on a horse and rides all the way to Helms Deep, and later the very night joins the battle there. How am I supposed to believe that he alone should be able to fight off several dozens of orcs? Why is it natural for him to take command over the Elven host at Helms Deep? And so on. Doesn't all this reduce him to a regular actionfilm-oversized unrealistic hero? It does to me.

You provided the answer to your own question, Artanis. The audience who may or may not have read the books needs to understand that Aragorn IS different from other men. The non-Tolkienite may not understand that he is Numenorean, but they need to appreciate that he is unique and special; he is the heir of kings. This sequence in the movie is designed to capture on film the heart of Tolkien's Aragorn.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The non-Tolkienite may not understand that he is Numenorean, but they need to appreciate that he is unique and special; he is the heir of kings. This sequence in the movie is designed to capture on film the heart of Tolkien's Aragorn.

I understand what you say in your first sentence, I just think it's unlikely that people will get the point, other that this is a cool film and Aragorn is a hero and obviously survives everything as do all heros in such films. I know I would think so myself if I hadn't read the book first. But then, I sincerely hope the audience will understand, and prove that you're right.

And I also hope you're right in your last sentence. It works well with me because I'm inevitably projecting the background and inheritance of book-Aragorn onto movie-Aragorn. Lucky me

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Artanis
It works well with me because I'm inevitably projecting the background and inheritance of book-Aragorn onto movie-Aragorn. Lucky me

This is the challenge of the filmmaker: to make a film that works for the newbie and adds new color and depth to Tolkien's story for the Rings fans. I think PJ did an amazing job of doing just that--and introducing the books to a new generation that grew up with VCRs and Playstations rather than with books.

[samwise of the shire]

Lanelf...because they took the Scouring Of The Shire out of ROTK they needed to make ROTK longer so they put Shelob and the meeting in ROTK to make it meet it's 3 hours quotia, actually I heard that:

ROTK is gonna be 3 1/2 hours long.

so there should be no problem with puttin' everythin' in.
Aragorns fall was just a little repeat of theme. Did you notice that a certain grey clad man fell off a sort of high place and was thought dead in fotr? D'ya think that someone'll probably fall off the walls of Minas Tirith...maybe Pippin? Or should we push Gimli off? But they needed to get the non-Tolkienite audience to realize that Arwen would have to give up her immortality to marry Aragorn because they took the bit that might've explained that fact out of FOTR and put it in the extended version...stupid idiots.
So think about it...having Aragorn take a little lesson in ropeless bungee jumping was better than having Arwen take a few sword fighting lessons at Helms Deep and explain it all after the battle...so I can forgive PJ.
But there was no reason to have the Ents as STUPID as they were...that REALLY teed me...though Pippin's growin' some brains which is good.
Cheers,
Sam

[Evenstar1400]

Aragorn's fall shocked the audiences. Both those who read the books and those who didn't. Those who did read them thought, "when did this happen?" where as those who didnt read them thought, "i thought he's one of the main characters.............. why was he killed. and the fangirls all thought "my god he looks so sexy when hes all wet."

i think pj added that scene to wake the audience up a bit. or maybe viggo morttisen suggested to put the scene in to become more popular than legolas (cause he does the thing when he jumps on the horse, and slides down the stairs on that sheild shooting arrows)

yeah so thats my opinion.

i'm guessing eowyngirl14 will have something to say about this. so eowyngirl14 keep your riff raff about aragorn being better in the fangirl thread.

[eowyngirl14]

Well... I'll have you know that when Viggo did that shot and hit the water he got pulled under for 15 feet and could have drowned!! he risked his life so that he could be better than Legolas? I don't think soo! HE doesn't need any cheep stunts to make him look good! (he did look kinda sexy all wet?)

I cried soooo hard during that scene... ask evenstar1400. Even though I had read the books I thought for a minute there that he was really dead! It was terrible!

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Legolaslvr!
I cried when i thought Aragorn died!!


I only hve read the 1 book so i didn't know that he realy didn't die but he did look pretty sexy in that scene!!!!

Unfortunately, even if you had read all the books, you still wouldn't know if he had died, because that scene isn't in the books! (Note- those angry smilies are directed at PJ, not at you, Legolaslvr!.)

And I really, REALLY didn't like Leglolas's "horse-mounting stunt", as it was aptly put by Insidious Rex. Legolas would not jump in front of a running horse just to get on it.

[Celebréiel]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
D'ya think that someone'll probably fall off the walls of Minas Tirith...maybe Pippin? Or should we push Gimli off

ooh *shudders* your probably right! Pj loves that continuing theme junk, bleah. Someone will fake die in rotk. Id also bet he'll have some annoying quip about Gimli and his beard, dwarf tossing games, with Legolas or something. I wonder who they'll turn into a punch line spouting comic relief in Rotk. Ow, *screams* it hurts! my heeaaad!!
~Celebréiel

[Elf Girl]

But

Eowyn fake dies

, remember? He won't need anyone else. *under breath* thank the Valar.

[Huan]

I just know you're right, Celebreiel, about the dwarf-tossing. It's made it into two movies already. I forgot to mention that one. I HATE HATE HATE the dwarf-tossing "jokes." Aragorn could fall of six hundred cliffs for all I'd care, if they'd just leave out the dwarf-tossing. What really bugs me is that in the DVD commentary, PJ seems to think this gag is okay because only Australians and New Zealanders know about dwarf-tossing. No, everyone's heard about it, Mr. Jackson, and it's so inappropriate in LOTR.

[Black Breathalizer]

I must be visiting the wrong theatres. Everytime Gimli looks up at Aragorn and says "Toss me," the audience laughs out loud. They also laugh loudly when he tells Legolas "You coulda picked a better spot" from behind the wall. I guess I need to add a new category to the Sundering of the Tolkien Fan thread: Purists with No Sense of Humor.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Don't you mean: Purists Who Disapprove of the Shameless Perversion of Characters? Gimli and Faramir were 2 things of the biggies for me.

But anyway, in case you all want to know where Arwen went:

She jumps ship just after they set sail, swims to shore, and whistles for the stolen Asfaloth. She then rides fast and hard to Minas Tirith, and disguises as a male soldier. When she sees the Noble Theoden slain, she defends his body from the Witch-King.

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Don't you mean: Purists Who Disapprove of the Shameless Perversion of Characters? Gimli and Faramir were 2 things of the biggies for me.

But anyway, in case you all want to know where Arwen went:

is that true? OH! please say that it is not!

[Huan]

BB, just because the audience laughs at the dwarf-tossing gags doesn't mean they belong in the movie. And just because some of us object to certain jokes doesn't mean we don't have a sense of humor.

[Celebréiel]

Originally posted by Huan
BB, just because the audience laughs at the dwarf-tossing gags doesn't mean they belong in the movie. And just because some of us object to certain jokes doesn't mean we don't have a sense of humor.

very true!! (the audience also laughed at Gollum, i dont think their a good indicator of whats funny) The dwarf gags were just really annoying. We get it...Gimli's short! It totally made a mockery of his character and of tolkiens work. They just werent funny.
~ Celebréiel

[Black Breathalizer]

The Scene: A test screening of TTT. Director Peter Jackson and Tolkien fan, Celebréiel, are observing a movie audience's reactions to the film.

[We hear roars of laughter from the audience.]

Jackson: Whew, I'm relieved. The audience really laughed at the funny little bits we wrote into certain scenes to balance the tension and drama of the moment.

Celebréiel: Laughter from the audience means nothing!

Jackson: oh.

Celebréiel: Movie audiences aren't good indicators of what's funny.

Jackson: oh.

Celebréiel: Only we Tolkien Book Purists are fit to judge what is genuinely funny or not.

Jackson: But I'm not writing a book, I'm making a movie...

Celebréiel: [ignoring PJ] You should have given us Tom Bombadil. Now there is a FUNNY guy!!!

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Celebréiel: Only we Tolkien Book Purists are fit to judge what is genuinely funny or not.

Jackson: But I'm not writing a book, I'm making a movie...

Celebréiel: [ignoring PJ] You should have given us Tom Bombadil. Now there is a FUNNY guy!!!

Black, as much as i enjoyed the movies I did find the dwarf humor a little over the top in the SECOND movie. It was fine in the first. I laughed along with everyone. But in the second he seemed to become simply a comic foil and thats about it and I found that a little cheesy. I would have felt the same way if it hadnt been based on a book at all. Celebréiel just chose to use the words "a mockery of Tolkien" but even if you leave Tolkien out of it entirely it was just a little too much in my opinion. It lowered Gimli from a serious role with depth and equal to the other fellowship members in stature to a comic prop. and that was a shame.