Legolas

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Heather Wooltoes
Hey Alquagarwaen!

Check the profiles before you shoot your dirty little mouth off you little delinquent. Legplasslvr isn't even 12 years old yet.

Of course your just a boy yourself, and I'm old enough to be your mother so YOU"R GROUNDED BOY, GET TO YOUR ROOM TILL YOU LEARN TO PLAY NICE!!!

I'm old enough to be the mother of all of you I'll bet. So, no more flaming or I will break out my whippen stick. Understood?

[Dunadan]

So, it would seem, as Findegil said, Legolas wasn't an Eglath. But was he Sindar?

After the destruction of Beleriand, Celeborn and Galadriel led many of the Sindar and some of the Noldor back over the Misty Mountains into Lorien. There they joined with the Nandor who had never crossed over the Misty Mountains from the east in the first place.

Since, as Artanis said, the Sindar merged with the Wood-elves east of the mountains and adopted their language and culture, wouldn't it be better to number Legolas among the Nandor?

My head hurts

cheers

d.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I would say that Legolas is a Sindarin Elf, because his father was of Thingol's people in Doriath. We don't know what Legolas' mother was, so we can't say with certianty what kind of Elf he truly is.

[Ithildin55]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I would say that Legolas is a Sindarin Elf, because his father was of Thingol's people in Doriath. We don't know what Legolas' mother was, so we can't say with certianty what kind of Elf he truly is.

I would say you are quite correct Sister Golden Hair. And, as far as I know, Elvish descent was reckoned only through the father’s line – so Legolas would be considered Sindarin by descent, regardless of his mother’s heritage.

Originally posted by Dunadan
Since, as Artanis said, the Sindar merged with the Wood-elves east of the mountains and adopted their language and culture, wouldn't it be better to number Legolas among the Nandor?

Also correct. Though Sindarin by lineage, Legolas embraced the culture of the Wood-elves and identified himself as Silvan.

BTW, the part about the Sindar adopting the Wood-elves’ language apparently falls into the category of one of Tolkien’s numerous ‘inconsistencies.’ Tolkien’s bits of source material are sometimes quite contradictory. See below

“Thranduil, father of Legolas of the Nine Walkers was Sindarin and that tongue was used in his house, though not by all his folk.” Unfinished Tales Appendix B The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves

By the end of the Third Age the Silvan tongues had probably ceased to be spoken in the two regions that had importance at the time of the War of the Ring: Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in northern Mirkwood. UT: Appendix A - The Silvan Elves and their Speech

And from Appendix B in LOTR: we see that Sindarin was the language of the Elves of Third Age Middle-earth.

“The Exiles, dwelling among the more numerous Grey-elves, had adopted Sindarin for daily use; and hence it was the tongue of all those Elves and Elf-lords that appear in this history. For these were all of Eldarin race, even where the folk that they ruled were of the lesser kindreds.”


Ithildin55

[Dunadan]

But thanks, SHG and Ithildin, that's cleared a few contradictions up for me.

d.

[Legolaslvr!]

LOL!!!!!!! Thank you Elf Girl and Heather Wooltoes for defending me!!!!!!!


I'm only 11!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And no one has still explained the question to me yet!

Sorry for any inconvienience and Alquagarwaen i'll think about taking your advice on leaving entmoot

[Elf Girl]

Oh, don't leave. We all make mistakes sometimes. The more the merrier!

[Nariel]

Don't let him get to you, Legolaslvr. And don't leave the Moot just because one proverbial fly hit your windshield.

I, in fact, think we should applaud Legolaslvr and Elf Girl for getting started young. I didn't become a fan until I was 16, and at the beginning all I thought of LOTR was Legolas's hottness. In fact, when I saw the first film, I was only at the end of book one in "FotR".

Now that I've read all 3 (or six, if you prefer) books, I can discuss more than that. But just to let you know, Legolaslvr, there are several very enjoyable threads all over the Moot where you can find riveting conversation and debate on the attractiveness of our friend the Elf.

[Ithildin55]

Originally posted by Legolaslvr!
And no one has still explained the question to me yet!

My apologies for leaving you in the dark my dear. Assuming you mean the question at the beginning of the thread, the question was:
I want to know if Legolas is a Eglath or not, can anybody answer me that question?
Though several people have posted correct information pertaining to the answer, I will attempt to summarize to make it clearer.

Eglath (the Forsaken) was a name the Sindar (the Grey-elves) gave to themselves after they missed their chance to go to Valinor because they tarried in Beleriand trying to find their lost leader, Elwë (later known as Elu Thingol, founder of Doriath). The name eventually came to pertain mostly to Cirdan’s people, the Falathrim (the ‘People of the Shore’). As far as I know then, all of the Sindar were therefore Eglath, though I believe the term had long since fallen out of general use by the timeframe of LOTR.

Legolas’ father, Thranduil, was possibly from Doriath. He was Sindarin and so was Legolas.


I hope that helps.
Ithildin55

[Legolaslvr!]

That's all right Ithildin55 at least some one answered my question well sort of.... I know that legolas is a sindarin elf as well as his father but i hve only read the 1 book so i do not understand the question.

I'm leaving this thread.....



Bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lady of Rohan]

well at least your not leaving the site legolaslvr! i'll try to exlain the answer to you tommorrow at school.

[Legolaslvr!]

Thanz Lady of Rohan!!!!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I would say that Legolas is a Sindarin Elf, because his father was of Thingol's people in Doriath. We don't know what Legolas' mother was, so we can't say with certianty what kind of Elf he truly is.

I was always under the impression that Legolas was of the Silvan wood elves...which would of course make him ultimately a Teleri Elf. Also in the Appendices of LOTR there is a section about the language of the Silvan wood elves and that it differs somewhat from Sindarin and Quenya...does anyone know if Tolkien ever listed any words of the Silvan dialect?

[markedel]

I think there are no records of Silvan.

[Arien the Maia]

I have always wondered if there are in records of the Avari living in Mirkwood under the kingship of Thranduil...could someone clarify this for me?

[Ithildin55]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I have always wondered if there are in records of the Avari living in Mirkwood under the kingship of Thranduil...could someone clarify this for me?

There probably were some Avari mixed in with the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood, however there are no specific records.

As to Silvan Elvish:

The Silvan Elves had developed no forms of writing, and those who learned this art from the Sindar wrote in Sindarin as well as they could. By the end of the Third Age the Silvan tongues had probably ceased to be spoken in the two regions that had importance at the time of the War of the Ring: Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in northern Mirkwood. All that remained of them in the records was a few words and several names of persons and places.
UT: Appendix A - The Silvan Elves and their Speech

This link on Ardalambion gives what we have of Nandorin (as close as we can get to Mirkwood Silvan).
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/nandorin.htm

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Ithildin55
There probably were some Avari mixed in with the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood, however there are no specific records.

As to Silvan Elvish:

The Silvan Elves had developed no forms of writing, and those who learned this art from the Sindar wrote in Sindarin as well as they could. By the end of the Third Age the Silvan tongues had probably ceased to be spoken in the two regions that had importance at the time of the War of the Ring: Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in northern Mirkwood. All that remained of them in the records was a few words and several names of persons and places.
UT: Appendix A - The Silvan Elves and their Speech

This link on Ardalambion gives what we have of Nandorin (as close as we can get to Mirkwood Silvan).
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/nandorin.htm

Thanks!

[azalea]

Okay, so what would happen to an offspring of an Avari and an Eldar? Would that elf have the choice to go to Valinor?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by azalea
Okay, so what would happen to an offspring of an Avari and an Eldar? Would that elf have the choice to go to Valinor?

Of course. They would still be Elven, and immortal.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by azalea
Okay, so what would happen to an offspring of an Avari and an Eldar? Would that elf have the choice to go to Valinor?

It is my understanding that any Elf has the choice to go to Aman...if the Valar forgave the Noldor Exiles and allowed them to return, then I think that they would welcome all those Elves who never set foot upon the course to Aman