Eowyn loves Wormtongue?

[Falagar]

Legolas' hair color is unknown.

He's a Silvan elf, right? Most of the Silvan elves was blondes, if I remember correct....

[Firhithiel Greenleaf]

I think that Éowyn was being kind of bewitched, in a way, by Wormtongue, during that scene. You know how he was all like touching her cheek and all that crap? Supposedly, he was supposed to "get the woman he wanted", as long as he helped Saruman. Maybe this was part of the whole big I-serve-Saruman plan. *shrug* I don't know, that was just my guess. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Éowyn, no matter how weird she is, would want Wormtongue. After all, she told him that his "words are poison", didn't she? Mad props for that! --Firhithiel

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Falagar
He's a Silvan elf, right? Most of the Silvan elves was blondes, if I remember correct....

Legolas was a Sindarin Elf who's father had blonde hair. We do not know what his mother was. Since we do not know then his hair color is a mystery.

[azalea]

Consarnit, my post was lost! Well, I was trying to say that yes, he was bewitching her w/ his words and voice at a time when she was vulnerable and feeling trapped, so it is believable that she might briefly fall under his spell.
In the book it is surmised by Gandalf that Saruman had promised him the spoils of Rohan, including Eowyn, in exchange for his service to him. Eomer states that he knew Grima had a thing for her, and had wanted to kill him because of that. Gandalf states that "Saruman is apt to overlook his bargains" and Grima says "You lie!" Theoden then gives him a choice to ride w/ him into battle or leave for good, which is why he is let go.
Just FYI.

[cassiopeia]

I think Eowyn just needed some comfort, Theodred had just died and no one else was there to comfort her. She listened to his words and then realised they were poison and so escaped from him. As for Grima's tear at Orthanc, my interpretation of that was he finally realised what was happening: Saruman was going to kill all of the Rohirrim. Maybe this will be the reason

he kills Saruman in the ROTK.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
Maybe this will be the reason

But in the movie, he won't

kill Saruman. Saruman is dying on a spiked wheel

because they cut the Scouring.

[azalea]

But maybe

Grima pushes him out of the window and that's how he falls onto it.

I hope that's how they do it. He has the motivation, and that way it makes it at least similar to the books.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
All the Rohirrim are blond.

Some were siad to be Dark-Haired, though they were off Dunlendish descendancy.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by azalea
But maybe I hope that's how they do it. He has the motivation, and that way it makes it at least similar to the books.

Your right, that would be a lot better.

[LuthienTinuviel]

i am undoubtedly sure that i read:

That Wormtounge DOES push Saruman out of a window, and then he falls onto his own machinery. Kind of a nice end isn't it, like a double punch.

[eowyngirl14]

As I have said numerous times, Eowyn should ahve slapped Wormtounge! That disgusting creep deserves to die!

I don't remeber reading what color hair Legolas had, but I am almost positive it says that Eowyn has long blonde wavy hair somewhere... just like she does in the movie!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Grima is called wormtongue because he is borrowing Saruman's power of the "voice". I don't think Tolkien explains how Grima borrows this power, but it is clear that he has some sort of power of suggestion which was given so he could hypnotize Theoden. A short story by Thomas Mann that was very popular in the 30's called "Mario and the Magician" similarly criticized the power of wicked leaders over the minds of the weak, and that story also ends with ... well I won't tell.

It seemed to me that the point of that scene in the movie (it's entirely contrived in case anyone hasn't read the book) is to show Grima trying to use the power that Saruman gave him for his own gain, and to clarify his primary motive in a dramatic sense. Later we see his tearful eye when Saruman tells the Uruk-hai to kill everyone at Helm's Deep. You can almost hear him thinking that his whole reason for siding with Saruman is now useless because Saruman just ordered Eowyn's death. And this, I gather, will set up what happens next, which I won't spoil if you haven't read it.

I agree 110% If I didn't read through this thread, I would have said the same thing

[Lady of Rivendell]

I agree with all the people that said that Wormtongue was using his " power of persuasion " over Eowyn. Combind that with her feeling depressed, forgotten and lonely......

I also think that scene shows her incredible strength as she "snaps" out of it and proceeds to tell him off.

Then again, I'm biased. I think Eowyn is one of the most complex and interesting characters in the story. =-)

[Eglantine Banks]

The Grima tear is an interesting thing and adds a dimension of sympathy or complexity to his well-presented character in the movie. It seems clear in the book that Grima desires Eowyn, and that part of his "pay" for helping Saruman is that he will have her (as part of the "spoils of war"). Maybe in the movie, the tear indicates that this is the first Grima has heard that Saruman's plan is to destroy all the Men, including Eowyn. Or perhaps, he just is a bad guy with a sensitive side and at that moment he's visualizing the children of Edoras all being killed.

One of the (many) problems with the movie adaptation of TTT is that in the movie, Saruman is out to destroy the entire race of Men. That isn't his plan in the book; he wants to conquer and rule, not destroy. In the movie it shows that there are Men among Saruman's armies -- thus creating an inconsistency I can't figure out: Saruman has Men among his armies, but his plan is to destroy the race of Men altogether, so why would those Men serve in his armies (toward their own destruction), and what is Saruman's intention after the "good" Men (Rohirrim, etc.) are destroyed -- will Saruman order the orcs in his forces to turn on the Men and kill them all? See the problem?

Saruman's plan of genocide, as opposed to his intent to conquer and rule, is just another case of PJ and Co. not thinking through the meaning of a bit of dialogue or plot device.

-Eglantine

[legolasluvr2931]

Remember that Eowyn says "Your words are Poison." In the book, it describes how Wormtongue 'controls' Theoden's mind. When he touches Eowyn's cheek and talks to her, she for a second is sorta paralized by the kind words that are spoken to her. Wormtongue can put you in a trance with his words, week people. That is why he controled Theoden, Theoden needed someone and he let Wormtongue control him without knowing what was happening.

[legolasluvr2931]

I like Legolas' hair. I think it suites him!!

[Artanis]

I've just watched the movie 3rd time and I've changed my mind. Now I don't think Grima has much power over Eowyn, other than what he gets through Theoden. I don't think he tries to seduce her, he thinks he will get her nevertheless after the fall of Rohan. He is mocking her, saying (not exact words): "How sad for the King to lose his sole heir", and "Oh, but you are alone", and "your life is shrinking", "these walls are fencing you in" and so on. I think Eowyn is reacting like she does because she knows his words are true. She is skilled with weapons, she is unafraid, she is proud, and she has a strong desire to carry out honourable deeds. She wish to se the king restored, and her people to be brave warriers. Instead she is forced to watch her uncle, the King, fall into dotage, and the warriors, including her brother, are sent in exile. It is not desire for Wormtongue she reveales, but uproar, a desire for another life.

[Firhithiel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by legolasluvr2931
I like Legolas' hair. I think it suites him!!

I agree with you! If he had brown hair he would look funny. Or maybe he wouldn't, because we'd all be used to seeing him with brown hair and then people would be arguing about whether or not he was brown-haired. Hum hoo.... ~~F. G.

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Lady of Rivendell
.......
Then again, I'm biased. I think Eowyn is one of the most complex and interesting characters in the story. =-)

YAY! Eowyn rules!
I really didn't understand Grima's tear... I couldn't see any emotino on his face, so it really confused me... Was he sad, angry, depressed, or crying for joy? I couldn't tell in the least!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I thought the tear was because of the wind, as I did not see any sort of emotion on his face. But perhaps those who said it could be realization of what would really happen to the people of Rohan are right. . .oh well. . .

Anyway, I would agree with Artanis--I think Grima was saying that because he knew it was true, and Eowyn knew, and he said it almost in mocking. But those words reminded her of the cage she already felt, and strengthened that feeling, methinks. Rather than any sort of 'lust' or whatever, I think the look on her face was realizing that his words were in part true, at least about the cage she felt.

Just want to add also that I thought Miranda Otto made a wonderful Eowyn, and was almost exactly like the book. . .and Eowyn was always my favorite character, so that made me especially happy.