Are they human?

[azalea]

In The Hobbit, he calls Wargs "the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild." Gandalf describes the goblins riding on WOLVES into the Battle of Five Armies "and Wargs are in their train." So I think that Wargs were like the great evil race of wolves (which is very Tolkien-like -- it makes sense that he would have a special genealogical line for these characters as he did many others). Also, when he tells how Gandalf can understand their language, I think it might just mean he knew "wolf," but that could be open for debate (was their language just a form of wolf, or was it actually a crude spoken language -- it does say they helped the orcs out frequently. Maybe they could actually communicate? It's fun to speculate).

As for goblins v. orcs, clearly they are the same "race" but I think a case could be made for there being a slight distinction. I can't find it, but in The Hobbit there is a line that says basically "their larger cousins the great orcs of the North" or something to that effect, refering to the goblins. I'm not disagreeing about the different names used for different purposes (goblin being recognizable to children), but I think we can imagine that refering to goblins could have been a vernacular for the Misty Mt. orcs in particular. That could be a literary way of justifying the difference. So it is correct to say they're the same, but it could be that while all goblins are orcs, not all orcs are goblins. Again, it's fun to speculate.

[Baby-K]

I believe Azalea is right Orcs & Goblins are basically the same race, however the Orcs evolved from Goblins & were larger, faster & more cunning than the original goblins. I am almost certain there is reference to this in The Hobbit (the evolution of the Orcs) but I'll have to check again - will get back to you (unless someone beats me to it).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

GamgeeGurl: He actually said crossing orcs with 'goblin-men'. But anyway, that was just in the movie; I don't believe Tolkien ever said orcs were crossed with goblin-men to make Uruks, did he?

I think that the Wargs are very different from wolves. Wargs are a kind of intelligent, more powerful, I suppose in a way perhaps 'demonic' large wolf.

Didn't they have a kind of a council with the goblins?

Actually, I'm almost certain that it was 'hobgoblins' from the North, rather than orcs. But anyway, I believe that Tolkien said in his letters that Orcs and Goblins were the same, just two different words for them.

[#1GaMGeeGuRL]

Alright! Alright! I admit it! Perhaps goblins and orcs are the same things. But I still doubt it...How would Saruman have made Uruk-Hai then? They do speculate that they might have just been tortured wildmen but I doubt it because by then the wildmen of Dunland and Isengard were in alliance. But then again all through Tolkien's works there are usually several different terms for races people, etc.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I fail to see how orcs and goblins being the same thing makes Uruk-hai (originally bred by Sauron, I believe, not Saruman) impossible.

I think the word you want is 'Hill-men' or something like that. Wild Men I believe refers to Woses.

[LeniFreak]

I, too, fail to see the connection between the synonymousness (not a word, I know) of "orc" and "goblin" and the creation of Uruk-hai.
I have to agree about the Wargs, as well. They seemed to me like sort of intelligent, "demon wolves" as opposed to just any old wolf hanging out in the right place at the right time.

[Baby-K]

Couldn't find the part I was thinking of - seems my memory is getting more & more like a sift everyday

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by LeniFreak
I, too, fail to see the connection between the synonymousness (not a word, I know) of "orc" and "goblin" and the creation of Uruk-hai.
I have to agree about the Wargs, as well. They seemed to me like sort of intelligent, "demon wolves" as opposed to just any old wolf hanging out in the right place at the right time.

Obiviously a very intelligent person!

According to dictionary.com, the word you want is 'synonymity'.

[#1GaMGeeGuRL]

Interesting...Perhaps then orcs and goblins are different. Think about The Hobbit. At that time all the orcs were in Mordor, I believe. So why would they find some in the Misty Mountains then? Unless they were just some scattered ones, that could factor in I suppose.

[Fanëar]

What are ents? and how did orcs and hose wierdlittle green thins come about?

[#1GaMGeeGuRL]

Ents are the tree-herders that were the thought of Yavanna that Eru made into reality to watch over her beloved forests. They are sort of counterparts to the great eagles because they both were animal/plant spirits sent to watch over MD on the land and in the sky. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gamigar]

As to the comment about all of them being related, I know for a fact that Dwarves are not related to the rest. One of the Valar made them when he was waiting for the Elves to come to Middle Earth.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yup, yup, yup! And the Ents, too, of course. But I would only really classify the Men and Hobbits as human.

[Fat middle]

Uruk-Hai is another word for orc but in Black speech: uruk stands for orc, and hai for people. so uruk-hai is orc-people.

i think that goblins, orcs, and uruks are all the same race (generically called "orcs"), but there are different breeds of orcs. the hobbits, which wrote The Red Book of Westmarch name each breed with the name with what they originally "meet them". Bilbo knew the shorter breed and named them goblins, perhaps because hobbit ancient history, long time told fireside to the hobbit childs spoke of the war that hobbits faught against goblins.

when hobbits enter in the "great history" of ME, Frodo and his companions get to know greater orcs, and they apply them the name they "orcs" as they hear to elves and men. however sometimes the use the term goblin to design those of the mountain breed that Bilbo met.

finally, when Pip and Merry hear the dicussion of their captors, learn the words uruk-hai and apply (erroneusly) to the new larger breed.