NEW BOOKS OUT: major spoilers!!! - Page 2

northsuperior · 11-13-2002, 01:43 PM

well you took that quite well folks, i was quite suprised myself .....at the info in the books and that they would vene release them so soon, and the changes and your reactions.........but i was really suprised that people think that arwen would rescue Piipin and Merry ...well thats really out in space!!
either people have got a hate on for Liv like theirs no tommorrow or they havent read the book at that thouroughly!!
Mano....people if you guess THAT .... well, lets just say that if she did show up in that context ,while i would not waste my money and walk out i would be pretty upset myself .....but i am not.
I havent any info yet!!! but methinks she will show up at the end before that paths of the dead , with Anduril , which you all know is at helms deep and not a second locale such as dunharrow sighhh yes more places cut so we dont confuse all those newbie tolkienites .

i was perturbed enough by the aragorn stuff, and these wargs, well hmmm great for the "sci fi lets make monsters " crowd, but in the book they arent really mentioned that much, but alas maybe PJ wanted to show these creatures as they have turned up before hmmm but was it wargs in the forest in the hobbit or were they referred to as wolves??
anywho back to chapters today for a java and opf course to look at the "sacred tomes" agin folks who knows waht i will see ......and if you are upset at the spolers well dont read im ..... you werent upset were you.........????

bropous · 11-13-2002, 02:12 PM

".........but i was really suprised that people think that arwen would rescue Piipin and Merry ...well thats really out in space!!
either people have got a hate on for Liv like theirs no tommorrow or they havent read the book at that thouroughly!!"

Excuse me, but I HAVE read the books rather thoroughly, AND have watched the fim rather thoroughly. The reason folks thought it would be Arwen rescuing Merry and Pippin is because Jackson has taken excessive liberties with the story line, NOT because we folks have not read the story thoroughly.

As for the Wargs, well, there might actually be an indication that YOU may not have read the story too thoroughly. Remember that night in Hollin? The attack of the Wargs? Hmmmmm?

I'm not upset by the spoilers, quite the opposite. However, again, Jackson makes unnecessary changes, and THAT is what sets non-newbie Tolkienites off.

Frankly, I think Jackson could have had a little greater respect for hte intelligence of audiences.

Beleg Strongbow · 11-13-2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'll probably be the only New Zealander to walk out.

you live in NZ?

close to the set?

Entlover · 11-13-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Entlover
I got it -- it's Arwen! Of course. [/B]

JOKE!!

That's the last time I try to be funny.

Dunadan · 11-13-2002, 05:12 PM

Well, I thought it was funny

Nazgul King Squirrel · 11-13-2002, 06:44 PM

I’ve heard PJ is going to improve the names of the films, all very original too:

TFotR will become “Arwen and the Riders of the Lost Ring”

TTT will become “Arwen ‘s Last Crusade”

TrotK will became “Arwen and the Mountain of Doom” (it seems that once again PJ will improve the original and we will see Arwen, the Warrior Princess, going into Mordor, rescuing Frodo and Sam on the final scene, not from Gollum but from the Dark Lord himself, literally kicking him into the abyss.

And if you think I’m joking just ask yourself, he wouldn’t do it, would he?

Aeryn · 11-13-2002, 09:43 PM

If anyone has watched the extended movie with commentary with the cast, Liv Tyler says something about being in the next movie. We all know she SHOULDNT but the bloody fact is she is.

The real question is, what does she think she'll be doing?

Cirdan · 11-13-2002, 10:58 PM

This is getting out of hand. I will tkae Bropous' advice but my enthusiasm for the movies is waning daily. When I thought about getting the extended version of FoTR I saw that it was bundled and cost over a dollar a minute to see stuff that is already in the book, well that was it. I was hoping to rent it but who is going to buy the set to rent out the "Director's Cut" of a movie that was released two months ago on DVD. The greed is unbelivable.

As for the spoilers, how can there be spoilers if you have read the but? I guess the PJ original material does constitute a spoiling of a sort.

Maybe this should have been posted on the Venting thread...

Elfhelm · 11-14-2002, 11:59 AM

A movie is not a book. It's amazing that people have to be told that still. It is one artist's visualization. When you read, you are supposed to make your own visualization. Look, every time you ask who Tom Baombadil was, you are making your own visualization. Every time you imagine the cow jumped over the moon song and hear a melody, you are making your own visualization. Alan Lee's visualizations are the few I've seen that closely adhere to the books, but just about every other artist has included their own personal imaginary elements when they have rendered it. Especially the Brothers Hildebrandt. Even JRRT changes the stories from the Cottage to the Silmarillion, and close examination might reveal discrepancies in the Luthien/Beren story between the way Strider tells it and the final version.

I will not mind one bit if Treebeard makes his entrance in a more dramatic way. And I know that Galadriel is supposed to be distracting Sauron by trying to clean the Orcs out of Southern Mirkwood, but I don't mind if a movie director needs to make the fact that the elves WERE part of the War of the Ring obvious by bringing them to Helm's Deep instead.

All five of you purists are welcome to your opinions, but please remember that the rest of us PAID to see a movie, not to bask in the brilliance of your ego while you chastise a person who is not even there in the theatre. Tolkien stated quite clearly that he did not believe drama, as a literary form, was capable of transmitting the fairy tale. If you wish to be that pure, never see any movie rendition of any fairy tale or myth or legend. I have news for you: Robin Hood does not send the Sheriff of Nottingham home strapped to the underside of a horse, but it makes for great film. And Arthur never sang "Here in Camelot". Just thought I'd clue you in, there...

I'll just wander off now singing "Frodo of the Nine Fingers, and the Ring of Doom" because, while JRRT never wrote that song, I happen to consider it modern hobbit lore.

viggosbeard · 11-14-2002, 12:10 PM

Bravo Elfhelm

Elfhelm · 11-14-2002, 12:59 PM

Cool! Thanks for stroking my ego, vigs. Because you know, I am the ultimate purist. See, I can prove that Tolkien got it all wrong because Gandalf is supposed to be a dwarf!

bropous · 11-14-2002, 01:43 PM

LOL. Looks like Black Breathalyzer is using a new nick.

Get 'em, BoP!

Cirdan · 11-14-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
LOL. Looks like Black Breathalyzer is using a new nick.

Get 'em, BoP!

Yeah, somebody get that man a thesaurus.

Elfhelm · 11-14-2002, 02:15 PM

Ah yes, I had to stop reading Tolkien when I learned that the guy who stole the ring from the dragon was SUPPOSED to give it to his wife. And when I read the Nibelungenlied I had to stop listening to Wagner. And when I found out they changed "Odin" to "God" I even had to stop reading that AND Beowulf. So now I sit alone in my dark cave stroking my "precious" ego knowing that I am better than anyone who would tolerate such obvious bawdlerizations!

Cirdan · 11-14-2002, 02:26 PM

Sounds like a good place for you...

Sween · 11-14-2002, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cirdan
Sounds like a good place for you...

now now children play nicely or stright to bed with no supper.

Now the changes that he has made are quite off track from the book....... but you know whos cares the movie is still gonna rock.

i think his changes will make for a good movie, rember lord of the rings as book form is unfiliable it just would be really crap. Jacksons providing the best film he thinks he can the most exciting and the most intresting and probably to a certian extent the one that makes the most sence.

it could be black breathliser mind seems to have the same stupid comments

Elfhelm · 11-14-2002, 03:18 PM

Yeah, but I just know my little delusional world will be shattered by some accident of fate. So maybe I'll just DEAL WITH IT!

Hey, Why would BoP "get" me. She used to agree with me.

BeardofPants · 11-14-2002, 03:19 PM

*Hurls a thesaurus*

BeardofPants · 11-14-2002, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Hey, Why would BoP "get" me. She used to agree with me.

Well, you see, it all began with this annoying little twerp called Black Breathalizer who rather stupidly started a thread on how Peter Jackson IMPROVED Tolkien, and it all went downhill from there.

For some reason they seem to think that you're BB masquerading under a new nick, but I know better, cos I remember you from ages ago.

Elfhelm · 11-14-2002, 03:44 PM

Oh yeah, I read that thread. (vulgar retching sounds)

11-13-2002, 01:43 PM	#21
northsuperior Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: northern ontario canada Posts: 22	spoliers well you took that quite well folks, i was quite suprised myself .....at the info in the books and that they would vene release them so soon, and the changes and your reactions.........but i was really suprised that people think that arwen would rescue Piipin and Merry ...well thats really out in space!! either people have got a hate on for Liv like theirs no tommorrow or they havent read the book at that thouroughly!! Mano....people if you guess THAT .... well, lets just say that if she did show up in that context ,while i would not waste my money and walk out i would be pretty upset myself .....but i am not. I havent any info yet!!! but methinks she will show up at the end before that paths of the dead , with Anduril , which you all know is at helms deep and not a second locale such as dunharrow sighhh yes more places cut so we dont confuse all those newbie tolkienites . i was perturbed enough by the aragorn stuff, and these wargs, well hmmm great for the "sci fi lets make monsters " crowd, but in the book they arent really mentioned that much, but alas maybe PJ wanted to show these creatures as they have turned up before hmmm but was it wargs in the forest in the hobbit or were they referred to as wolves?? anywho back to chapters today for a java and opf course to look at the "sacred tomes" agin folks who knows waht i will see ......and if you are upset at the spolers well dont read im ..... you werent upset were you.........????

11-13-2002, 02:12 PM	#22
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	".........but i was really suprised that people think that arwen would rescue Piipin and Merry ...well thats really out in space!! either people have got a hate on for Liv like theirs no tommorrow or they havent read the book at that thouroughly!!" Excuse me, but I HAVE read the books rather thoroughly, AND have watched the fim rather thoroughly. The reason folks thought it would be Arwen rescuing Merry and Pippin is because Jackson has taken excessive liberties with the story line, NOT because we folks have not read the story thoroughly. As for the Wargs, well, there might actually be an indication that YOU may not have read the story too thoroughly. Remember that night in Hollin? The attack of the Wargs? Hmmmmm? I'm not upset by the spoilers, quite the opposite. However, again, Jackson makes unnecessary changes, and THAT is what sets non-newbie Tolkienites off. Frankly, I think Jackson could have had a little greater respect for hte intelligence of audiences. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

11-13-2002, 06:44 PM	#26
Nazgul King Squirrel Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On an Ent Posts: 29	I’ve heard PJ is going to improve the names of the films, all very original too: TFotR will become “Arwen and the Riders of the Lost Ring” TTT will become “Arwen ‘s Last Crusade” TrotK will became “Arwen and the Mountain of Doom” (it seems that once again PJ will improve the original and we will see Arwen, the Warrior Princess, going into Mordor, rescuing Frodo and Sam on the final scene, not from Gollum but from the Dark Lord himself, literally kicking him into the abyss. And if you think I’m joking just ask yourself, he wouldn’t do it, would he? __________________ I'm bad, no really... QUOTES: “We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyze what was important to Tolkien and to try to honor that. In a way, we were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves. “ PJ “Obviously we're taking this incredible novel and we're adapting it into films, and I think the film is the important thing. “ Peter Jackson on The Today Show, December 5, 2002

11-13-2002, 09:43 PM	#27
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	If anyone has watched the extended movie with commentary with the cast, Liv Tyler says something about being in the next movie. We all know she SHOULDNT but the bloody fact is she is. The real question is, what does she think she'll be doing? __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

11-13-2002, 10:58 PM	#28
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	This is getting out of hand. I will tkae Bropous' advice but my enthusiasm for the movies is waning daily. When I thought about getting the extended version of FoTR I saw that it was bundled and cost over a dollar a minute to see stuff that is already in the book, well that was it. I was hoping to rent it but who is going to buy the set to rent out the "Director's Cut" of a movie that was released two months ago on DVD. The greed is unbelivable. As for the spoilers, how can there be spoilers if you have read the but? I guess the PJ original material does constitute a spoiling of a sort. Maybe this should have been posted on the Venting thread... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

11-13-2002, 05:12 PM	#25
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	Well, I thought it was funny

11-14-2002, 11:59 AM	#29
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	A movie is not a book. It's amazing that people have to be told that still. It is one artist's visualization. When you read, you are supposed to make your own visualization. Look, every time you ask who Tom Baombadil was, you are making your own visualization. Every time you imagine the cow jumped over the moon song and hear a melody, you are making your own visualization. Alan Lee's visualizations are the few I've seen that closely adhere to the books, but just about every other artist has included their own personal imaginary elements when they have rendered it. Especially the Brothers Hildebrandt. Even JRRT changes the stories from the Cottage to the Silmarillion, and close examination might reveal discrepancies in the Luthien/Beren story between the way Strider tells it and the final version. I will not mind one bit if Treebeard makes his entrance in a more dramatic way. And I know that Galadriel is supposed to be distracting Sauron by trying to clean the Orcs out of Southern Mirkwood, but I don't mind if a movie director needs to make the fact that the elves WERE part of the War of the Ring obvious by bringing them to Helm's Deep instead. All five of you purists are welcome to your opinions, but please remember that the rest of us PAID to see a movie, not to bask in the brilliance of your ego while you chastise a person who is not even there in the theatre. Tolkien stated quite clearly that he did not believe drama, as a literary form, was capable of transmitting the fairy tale. If you wish to be that pure, never see any movie rendition of any fairy tale or myth or legend. I have news for you: Robin Hood does not send the Sheriff of Nottingham home strapped to the underside of a horse, but it makes for great film. And Arthur never sang "Here in Camelot". Just thought I'd clue you in, there... I'll just wander off now singing "Frodo of the Nine Fingers, and the Ring of Doom" because, while JRRT never wrote that song, I happen to consider it modern hobbit lore. __________________ cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 11-14-2002 at 12:14 PM.

11-14-2002, 12:10 PM	#30
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	Bravo Elfhelm __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

11-14-2002, 12:59 PM	#31
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Cool! Thanks for stroking my ego, vigs. Because you know, I am the ultimate purist. See, I can prove that Tolkien got it all wrong because Gandalf is supposed to be a dwarf! __________________ cya

11-14-2002, 01:43 PM	#32
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	LOL. Looks like Black Breathalyzer is using a new nick. Get 'em, BoP! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

11-14-2002, 02:15 PM	#34
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Ah yes, I had to stop reading Tolkien when I learned that the guy who stole the ring from the dragon was SUPPOSED to give it to his wife. And when I read the Nibelungenlied I had to stop listening to Wagner. And when I found out they changed "Odin" to "God" I even had to stop reading that AND Beowulf. So now I sit alone in my dark cave stroking my "precious" ego knowing that I am better than anyone who would tolerate such obvious bawdlerizations! __________________ cya

11-14-2002, 02:26 PM	#35
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Sounds like a good place for you... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

11-14-2002, 03:18 PM	#37
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Yeah, but I just know my little delusional world will be shattered by some accident of fate. So maybe I'll just DEAL WITH IT! Hey, Why would BoP "get" me. She used to agree with me. __________________ cya

11-14-2002, 03:19 PM	#38
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Hurls a thesaurus __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-14-2002, 03:44 PM	#40
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Oh yeah, I read that thread. (vulgar retching sounds) __________________ cya

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